To want to keep my maiden name?

[Mitzimaybe]

My DP wants me to take his surname when we get married next year. It's traditional and he says if I keep my own name that means I want to keep my independence, so we might as well not get married.

I think it's a leftover from a patriarchal society where the bride ceased to be the property of her father and became the property of her husband, and it has no place in our modern, equal relationship.

I'd appreciate any replies that would help him see my point of view, (not just LTB!)

N.B. We are not young and won't have any children, if that makes any difference.

The AIBU question was that the OP thought that name changing was an outdated relic from a patriarchal society and she ask for any replies that would help him see my point of view - I gave her my experience and reasons earlier in the thread. I didn't read your answers closely nomama so I wasn't directing my post at you - but there was another poster who basically said "why wouldn't you change your name, what's the point in getting married" which is pretty rude & offensive to people like me who are married and have retained their names. I have had loads of comments, variations on this these - I don't know how the person asking the question could think it's anything other than very rude and ignorant.

I wouldn't ask someone how they liked being a chattel of their husband and deride them for being too thick to learn the historical connotations of name-changing - I assume they are comfortable with their choice & probably have their won reaosns for doign so. I have never initiated a conversation about the politics of name changing (outside of contributing to these threads on t'interweb). However I have (in the real world) had many many people question my choice to retain my name, often very rudely.

Double-barrelling not really an option here (the result is pure comedy, think along the lines of Shoe-Boot only much funnier) The dcs have dh's name, the cat like me retained her own name when we married. I asked 10yo ds tonight whether it mattered that we had different names and he looked totally bemused!

I don't love my surname tbh but it is mine and I can't really imagine being called anything else. Plus as an added bonus it really winds up totally misogynistic narcissistic FIL, so it's win-win really [mature]

"But, as I think I have already said about 10 times, we chose to get married, traditionally. So we did all of the traditional things. If you choose to read into it that I am a downtrodden woman, fill your boots."

so you made a choice. fine - it's great that you actually have a choice, unlike previous generations of women. what I don't understand is why you feel the need to deny what these traditions are about - being given away and changing your name are rooted in women being possessions of their fathers to be passed over to their husband on marriage.

"One of the big debates in feminist circles is whether it's really any better for women to keep their maiden names, which often are their father's last name. Is that really liberating?"

not much of an argument really is it. as others have pointed out you have no control over the name you are given at birth. also in feminist circles I really can't see there being much of a discussion on 'maiden' names; I don't have a 'maiden' name. I have my name.

tbh I am not comfortable with men changing their names either - I wouldn't want dh having my name, it's mine. he has his own.

Gennz : I so agree with you .

I never initiate the topic of me keeping my name. It wasn't a statement per se, it just wasn't part of the marriage that dh and I entered into (even though we did briefly and jokingly consider double-barreling - think "Flying-Pumpernickel" ).

The only time I talk about it is on threads like this to challenge those that make statements that equate "not taking the man's name" with "not bring properly married" or ask "why bother getting married?" or suggest it is outwith the societal norm.

Some people like my MIL know I've kept my name but still insist on sending me birthday cards addressed to Mrs

I eventually ended up taking DH's name in marriage, for a couple of reasons, but defend to the hilt any and all women's right to retain her own name. I totally get why this is very important to many women.

I am bemused by the name-changers who seem to think taking their DH's name is the point of marriage, why would you get married otherwise, it's 'not normal' to keep your own name, and other such nonsense.

You all need to cop on. And as for this...

...perhaps you could explain why taking on your husband's surname is so unbearably unthinkable?!

Why don't you just ask any random married man the exact same question, as to why taking his wife's surname is so 'unbearably unthinkable'?! Whatever his answer is, is your answer. Except of course, nobody would even think to ask a man that question...

It's a personal thing. I was in two minds about it and about a week before the wedding I did decide to change my name. Although I have remained a Ms.

We have been married 15 years now and I still can't get used to it. I really wished I had kept my name and not taken his. Even now 15 years later I have to stop and think when I sign things as I often try to write my old name.

Brilliantly put, Gennz.

mjmooseface - But feministspeople want to come along and ruin a perfectly good thing, such as marriage, by changing it around.

and

Nomama - we chose to get married, traditionally. So we did all of the traditional things.

You do understand that if feministspeople hadn't come along and ruined all those lovely traditions then your marriage would still have involved promising to honour and OBEY, that you wouldn't have been entitled to a bank account or any money in your own name, that if you had divorced or left your husband you would have no right to ever see your children again, that your husband could have legally have you committed to an asylum for the rest of your life if you annoyed him too much, etc, etc.

You can't be happy to drop some traditions, whilst at the same time saying that anyone who doesn't follow other ones somehow has a lesser/less valid marriage.

Of course, most of these 'traditions' aren't, in the grand scheme of things, very traditional at all. Go back more than 500 years and marriage for the most part involved moving in together (once you were already upduffed) and perhaps getting round to telling a visiting preacher about 5 years later. A little earlier than that nobody had any surnames so you couldn't change them anyway. Earlier than that you would have had to ask your lord's permission to get together.

Things change. I could not care less about what other people chose to do name wise. What I am confused by are those that take these things as a personal slight if someone makes a different choice to them.

Interesting that some people think it might be a regional thing. My fianc is northern. So am I by birth and upbringing but have lived all my adult life in the south. Is this another example of the north south divide?

Yes, anotherone. I was more than happy to mangle the old traditions to suit myself, to make my wedding one I wanted. And I have made absolutely no comment on anyone elses choices, I have said a few times it is choice that is important and that no one choice is better/worse than another.

My taking umbrage is due to posts like yours, that continue to take me to task for something I have not said... oh and the assumption that I don't know much history and that I am somehow anti feminist. I have been taken to task in other threads for saying that I am not all that impressed with the rabid feminism that insists on being right and denigrating others who may have a different point of view!

Oh that's the other thing - titles. Even my mum said "You have to be a Mrs when you're married and it seems odd to be Mrs Myname not Mrs Hisname."

I'm Ms Myname now and I'll be Ms Myname after I get married. Even if I did take his name (no chance) I'd want to be Ms Hisname.

I accept that a lot of his friends and family (and mine, possibly) will call me Mrs Hisname whatever I decide, and I probably won't make a huge fuss about that. But when I'm introducing myself, I want to be Ms Myname. And if I make (say) a restaurant booking for us both, in my name, then I'll expect him not to make a fuss about being Mr Myname for the duration.

I can't agree at all that no choice is better or worse than another. Of course some choices are better than others.

Mitzimaybe - I suspect you are making the mistake of discussing these things with other people, a mistake commonly found on the baby name threads! With the exception of your future husband, no one else even needs to know your plans. Maybe tell the priest/registrar as they might announce you as Mr and Mrs so-and-so.

In this specific instance, Igggi? Why?

'I accept that a lot of his friends and family (and mine, possibly) will call me Mrs Hisname whatever I decide, and I probably won't make a huge fuss about that.'

I used to pick my battles. Getting a letter from the school with wrong name wasn't a biggie (my son had his Dad's surname) but I didn't take any shit from family and friends. Most were fine with the idea, a couple were weirdly offended/put out by the very idea and tried to refuse to call me by my real name. I just started calling them random made up names in return and that quickly got the message over that no one has the right to change someone else's name.

I'm always amazed that in this day and age so many people think it's important to change their name when they get married.
If your DP thinks that it is important to have the same surname then the obvious solution is that he changes his name to yours. If he doesn't want to do that because he thinks that only women should change surnames then he is being a sexist prat I'm afraid.

Nomama, because choices aren't neutral, and nymphs one person can choose,that may have no negative impact on them or their lives, can still impact negatively on others as they reinforce a dominant ideology.
I meant it more generally though, I really disagree that feminism is about individual choice, for example.

So feminists don't get to be individuals.... or individual women don't get to choose to be feminists, they just have to be... women have to agree with all feminists ideology.... one woman's choice changes a world? What did you mean by that?

If I had known, way back when, that being a feminist was not my own choice I would probably have acted very differently.

Nomama

Saying some choices are more feminist than others is no more loaded than saying some choices are more environmentally friendly than others.

Who said some choices are more feminist than others?

That, as a statement, wouldn't have needed any explanation!

The statement I am asking Igggi about is I really disagree that feminism is about individual choice

That I do not understand, as an ethos.

I am a feminist.

I chose to change my name because my father's name is (to me) associated with some negative stuff/disfunction. It's not like I chose it. Also my name was almost a 'joke' to associate with a pop star when I was born, gah the teasing.
I didn't view my father's family's name as any more inherently a feminist choice on my part than my husband's name - in which I got to take or refuse. I was considering choosing a new name for a while.

My husband's last name actually also sounded a hell of a lot better than my father's with my first name. Bit of vanity there.

It was, however, a free, personal choice and rather unexpected on my DH's part- who assumed I just wouldn't name change.

Some friends of mine both chose a new last name together and deedpolled it when they married - interesting idea!

Iggi what is feminism about then? To me it is very much about the right for women to make their own autonomous decisions without restriction from men or indeed, other women.

I don't disagree that some choices are better than others, the same goes for all choices relating to all matters.

There are lots of helpful comments on here and I think it's a good debate; thanks all of you who are participating. I think my favourite is probably

cashmiriana
^I showed commitment to my DH by making (mutual) promises to be loving and faithful, in front of 100 people in our place of worship.

I continue to show that commitment 17 years later by sharing a home, bed, bank account, jointly raising 2 children, and generally being a partnership.

I can manage all of that whilst having a totally different surname to his.^

whoops I got my formatting all wrong. Cashmiriana should have been bold and her quote in italics. Sorry!

Have you managed t have a calm discussion with him, Mitzi?

Did he actually mean it the way he said it? Or had he been clumsy with is words?