AIBU to think that Islamist Extremism is on the rise in Britain as well as the rest of Europe?

[DikTrom]

In schools, local communities, pro ISIS demonstrations etc. with Muslim leaders remaining silent.

Is this something new or was it always there right under the surface?

Have we been to tolerant to people who openly reject our values and want to overthrow our society?

It is NOT islamaphobic to talk about the atrocities and misogyny carried out by extremists in the name is Islam or due to some foul and twisted interpretation of the religion

I should add that its known that bigots use the 'British values' line to camflouge their intolerance

Crap, HappyAgain. If you actually want a change in your home country, why should you move?

I'd really like an independent Scotland, where a socialist revolution has happened, governed by a system of workers' councils. That's probably not hugely likely to happen any time soon, but I'm allowed to stay here and agitate for it, and if I break any laws the polis will deal with me. I don't have to "move country if I don't like it" and Muslim citizens don't either.

I really hate that "love it or leave it" nonsense. A while ago it was thought that women getting the vote was against British values. So should the suffragettes all just have left and gone elsewhere?

Zulu, where have I referred to "British values"? MDo you think the actions of extremists in the name of Islam ok?

By the way, I was raised by a Muslim and am from a Muslim country.

How can the behaviour of Muslim fundamentalists here be comparable to peace loving Brits who haven't got to grips with French or Spanish??

7/7 is what you mean ...the IRA bombed a few more times - do you fear Irish Catholics as well then?

Fundamentalist is not the same thing as Extremist.

HermioneWeasley

I said 'I should add'

And to op who I would call a goady fucker if it weren't for already having been warned of that my MNHQ

here

and here

Examples of the muslim community being very vocal of their rejection of terrorism. But the fact that thousands of Muslims live peaceful lives here and detest extremism isn't reported Vs only perhaps a few hundred that support it.

Much like a family on benefits going ahead with their lives as good citizens not smoking, fighting and procreating while owning status dogs won't ever make it to the pages of the Daily Mail.

I don't think that means we should ignore those that are preaching hate and a danger to us. But the anti Islam rhetoric is making the shutters come down in those communities in fear who would be helping us root out the evil within.

We need to engage not attack. Look at why this is happening. In reality it's fuck all to do with religion and everything to do with land, power, resources. We keep those regions destabilised for a purpose. Their leaders raise up angry young men to throw at us because of their own goals in the same way our leaders use our young soldiers as cannon fodder.

And where are they? Where are their children?

No I do not fear Irish Catholics. I fear Islamic jihadists after the killing of soldier Lee Rigby, tube bombings etc

well said softly

I was raised Muslim although I am not religious now. Most of my family and many of my friends are Muslim. All of them have spoken out against terrorism. Should all Catholics be blamed for the IRA? Should European Jews be blamed for Israel? Most Muslims are ordinary people who would never want to see anyone killed and who do not believe that extremists and terrorists brainwash, fight or kill because of Islam- although the extremists may think they do . Extremists are a tiny, tiny minority, and I believe that religion can channel their anger or hate, but, like with the crusades or whatever, it is not to do with Islam itself. We have not overlooked it in our society, many, many people are Islamophobic in society.

I have no problem whatsoever with the thousands of Muslims that live here in peace- obviously

Zulu, I am confused by you quoting me and implying I am a bigot when you know nothing about me except that I condemn Islamic extremist action and beliefs.

Building on what Vampire has said, I think people should speak out against extremism, religious imperialism and oppression in all it's forms.

Yes, that makes me a massive bigot

Im not sure about the 'values' comment OP as what is British is a very subjective experience these days and calls into questions a multitude of factors that relate to a persons identity.

But I dont see the problem some people have with a thread that specifies a form extremism - why is it a problem to talk about this?

I think it feels as if it is more prevalent. Whether this is an accurate perception I dont know, we are at the mercy of the media or government statistics.

OP did you mean to articulate in some way the differences between extremist views and western culture/values.

Think it is on the rise but think that this is more a problem for moderate Muslims and non muslims in muslim countries. Have friends from Turkey and Malaysia who are worried.

OP, who are the "Muslim Leaders" that you are talking about? AFAIK, Islam does not have a clerical hierarchy like CofE or Catholicism.

Could you give an example of some action that you feel should be spoken out against, the British values they reject, and the "leaders" who did not speak out against them? At the minute your OP sounds goady, ignorant and Islamophobic, possibly because it's contents are so vague.

Honestly, HONESTLY I think the media absolutely love stirring the pot on this subject, and yes by media I mean you Daily Mail. I believe it is the most read paper in this country and it is absolutely full of goady headlines put there to make people suspicious and scared.

I read the online version only and don't click on any story that I think will piss me off irrationally. Be it the family of 12 on benefits, extremists, economic migrants etc.

I will answer the particular question though that the OP asked. I think right now it does seem as though Islamist extremists are targeting many Muslim countries and forcing previously moderate Muslims into more orthodox practices. In the past Christians also forced Christianity onto moderate citizens in violent and bloody conflicts. So this is certainly nothing new.

England (The UK?) colonised huge swathes of the world leaving death and wars in our wake so I really don't think we are well placed to start moralising about other countries and pearl clutching about atrocities.

I think the OP should be given the benefit of the doubt they may not have articulated very well what they mean.

Whats the point in ref colonisation unless it is to point out lessons learned. Christianity is hardly thriving anyway.

I've lived in Saudi Arabia under a fundamentalist regime.

I could not leave the house without a male relative; I was forbidden to drive; I was spat on for being a woman; I was afraid for my life when I witnessed a young girl being beaten by religious police (grown men with sticks) for showing her hair.

I think right now it does seem as though Islamist extremists are targeting many Muslim countries and forcing previously moderate Muslims into more orthodox practices

And I find that scary.

I am from one of the colonies. The British oppression was last century and I and my family want to look forward.

And what I see in the future worries me.

I have been seeing more reporting of Islamic academics and clerics standing up against, among other things, the wearing of the veil, FGM, and ISIS. You wouldn't have seen that in the press a while ago (just reporting the shouty gobshites whaffling on about imposing sharia law in the UK/black flags over parliament etc).

There have always been religious loons, and there always will be. Sadly their voices are often the loudest.

War and revolution in the ME has made for waves of angry/distressed/damaged refugees, and social media has found a voice for the idealistic 'idiot youth'.

ISIS are a f***g scary bunch, and if even half of what is reported about them is true, they are a great threat for everyone living in the ME (with the wider repercussions for everyone else).

Relatives in that neck of the woods say that they are seen as bloody lunatics, bolstered by foreign idiots sending money/rushing over to get married (or risk being sold into prostituton when they actually get there - because they are, at the end of the day, 'damaged foreign wimmin') or running over their to join the 'paradise' without a clue about what living in even a moderate islamic state entails.

Last two post quite insightful thank you.

from my point of view this country is being slowly taken over my muslims, I know many British women who have converted to islam and now wear head scarfs ect, I think its ridiculous if we went to their country and practiced Christianity we would probably be hung drawn and quartered! there were a group of muslim men outside my grandmothers church handing out leaflets to help people 'save their selfs by converting to islam' and tbh david camerons speech before ramadan was a joke saying muslims are the number 1 givers to charity in the UK ect.

plus if anyones notices they were selling baby clothes in asda with 'my first Eid' printed on them.

no im not a racist im just being realistic. in my area of newcastle there are many streets where ONLY muslims live on them..

I do get the impression there are some groups of muslims who do not desire integration but I have no desire to get them to integrate with me anymore or less than other groups of people who live by me. I live peacefully and so do the muslims I see in my community and a couple of muslims who I am friends with. Live and let live. I dont feel my rights are infringed in anyway by the presence in my community of other groups of people.

zaz for many British muslims this is their country. FFS.

And Christians, JWs etc give out leaflets about their brand of Christianity.

What's the problem with "My First Eid" baby clothes Zaz?