AIBU, to be concerned about increasing anti-semitism throughout Europe

[DikTrom]

Yesterday's Sunday Times had a number of articles about increased anti-semitism in the UK. Same is happening in the Netherlands and even more so in France and Germany.

I've read most of that thread and disagree about the rabid anti semitism, although its difficult to know for sure as so many messages have been deleted.

But are you sure lots of Mumsnetters are anti semitic, and not just raging about the slaughter in Gaza?

I've seen PigletJohn make posts that are clearly anti-Zionist, only to be told that he's an anti-Semite.

And the point made earlier bears repeating, it must be quite galling for the original Semite

Posted too soon.

The term "anti-semitic" has been co-opted. Semite does not mean Jewish.

Bambabini I think you are twisting things rather a lot. I haven't seen anyone post here to say that Jewish people who are attacked in Europe deserve it. What a ridiculous thing to suggest.

ThunderbumsMum Could you explain where the "rabid anti-semitism" is in that thread? I don't see any.

TheTravellingLemon I am really disappointed that what you took from my being worried about people commenting that they are planning when and where to run to for fear of a second Shoah is that I think that you are being over-dramatic. It was absolutely not my intention nor my belief. I am absolutely sickened by the thought that there are members of the Diaspora who feel that things have got so bad, that this is what they are doing.

I apologise unreservedly if that is how you read it. I, for one, would stand up for you.

The title of the thread, for a start. There is another, here

I think you have to kind of look at it on two levels.

There is anti-Semitism within parts of the population. This is a historic constant in Europe, it just goes through major rises and falls. Right now it's on the rise again.

The question is, how does the political sector deal with these sentiments? This is the really frightening part, to me, because it is so easy for political leaders (and wannabe leaders) to exploit anti-Semitism (and Islamophobia) for their own ends -- and, it is easier for politicians to do nothing rather than confront unpleasant populism.

There are reports that some right-wing parties in Europe are receiving support (including financial support) from Russia, which would be a very clever move on the part of Putin, but is also a disturbing development.

Obviously what's going on in Gaza is relevant, because people are using it to justify their violence and hatred. But I think it's naive to think it's the sole driver, or to think 'if only Israel behaved itself, Jews in Europe wouldn't have to worry'.

Capt please, no need for apologies - nerves are a bit jangly at the moment! I didn't mean my post to sound combative either. Tone is a difficult thing to convey on here. No hard feelings either way I hope

Lemon none whatsoever.

Thunder But that's anti-Zionism, not anti-Semitism. And many Jews oppose the Zionist state.

PigletJohn Tue 29-Jul-14 10:58:40
There are also accusations made to people who criticise actions of the State of Israel, that such criticism is anti-Semitic. However that is a dishonest old debating trick which is easily detected.

And 18 minutes later, up pops ThunderbumsMum doing that very thing.

I don't believe many Jews oppose the right of Israel to exist - numanoid - where are you getting that from? A minority do.

I believe many Jews are and have been critical of Netanyahu.

I believe lots of non jewish people, plenty here on Mumsnet, oppose Netanyahu.

I also believe many of them oppose the right of Israel to exist - I find here and in real life they TEND TO be anti Semites or very thick or both.

A question that was prompted by another poster:

I would expect people who are opposed to racism be opposed to all forms of it, including anti-semitism.

Are the people who are opposed to anti-Semitism opposed to all forms of racism?

Is there a special term for Zionists who express racist behaviour and speech towards Palestinians?

What do you mean by Zionists,pigletjohn? I'm sure you wouldn't just be substituting that word for 'Jews'...

don't be silly.

What do you mean by Zionists,pigletjohn? I'm sure you wouldn't just be substituting that word for 'Jews'...
There's no way Pigletjohn can reasonably respond to such a silly comment.

So what do you think Zionist means? It has a specific meaning that frequently does not fit with your posts.

you can start here

But it may take you many years of argument, study and discussion to form your own opinion.

As you have demonstrated that you have not grasped the difference between the meaning of the terms "State of Israel" and "Jew" I do not see that you are intellectually equipped to take on this challenge.

I think there's an increase in anti-Zionism, not anti-semitism.

Pigletjohn I don't think you're well equipped to be criticising other people's intellectual capacity. Based on the calibre of your posts, it is clear what you are.

thunderbum, how many people have to ask what you're talking about before you get specific?