AIBU, to be concerned about increasing anti-semitism throughout Europe

[DikTrom]

Yesterday's Sunday Times had a number of articles about increased anti-semitism in the UK. Same is happening in the Netherlands and even more so in France and Germany.

Thank you Cat. It's nice to read some common sense. My great grandparents came to this country because of the pogroms in eastern Europe, what had the Jewish population done then to deserve it? Antisemitism saw a 36 percent rise this year before the start of the conflict, what was the cause of that? Like all forms of racism, it's always there.

You keep reading more into what i have said, asking a question and then ansering it yourselves.

No that would not be my reply, but I see little point in continuing talking to people who are intent on hatred and blinkered defence on SOME war crimes over others.

YGALF I wrote a whole post on another thread about how this conflict has a long and complex history and that it is not black and white but a very nuanced etc. It was quite a long post, basically saying that everyone involved is has some responsibility and there are many, many different angles. What did I get in reply?

Was nazi Germany nuanced as well or just this?

There is no point.

It does make me see how hard it must be for Israel to have any peace talks with Hamas! It is not as though they have not tried.
Hamas are intent on killing Gaza people, they have brainwashed people into giving up their lives and their children's lives. Israel have transmitted radio warnings and leaflet drops to warn civilians of bombings in civilian areas and organise evacuation. It is well known, it is common knowledge that Hamas have blocked the messages and destroyed the leaflets and lied about the danger.

I wish there were a law against that in Gaza, as there is in Israel, but there isn't. There is no way for them to be brought to justice without more innocent lives lost and probably the wrong people taking the blame, because Hamas don't have a law against sending civilians to places they know are scheduled to be bombed (bombed because Hamas store weapons there). Hamas don't recognise international law applying to them. Israel leaderships have been far from blameless, but they are targetting specific sites. What we are gwtting on the news is half truths and actually a lot of lies. Yes, for example, there have been at least 6 UN safety zones bombed in Gaza, but Gaza bombed more of them than Israel! Neither side can claim they are blameless.

Because of the news giving lop sided coverage, there is no way to know what is really going on from the news.

Israel is not the only aggressor in this.

It still has nothing to do with Racist and religious hatred attacks in other parts of the world.

YeGods any links to your claims? Also any suggestions as to where people should go? A refugee centre perhaps, to be bombed in their sleep?
Maybe have a closer look at Likud and their policies too? They no more recognise Palestine then Hamas do Israel.
Difference is, they get to commit this obscenity of a massacre, this war crime, and justify it as somehow okay because they have the convenient Hamas bogeyman.
Gaza has been flattened. Utterly criminal and disproportionate doesn't even come close.
Btw I am not derailing as your post wasn't addressing anti-Semitism either.

TheTravellingLemon
It is worth posting even if some people don't want to listen. I post on the islamaphobic threads to stop myths becoming truths. If I've made one person question their "facts" then it's worth it.

There is a sad and worrying theme in this thread. There are Jewish people in this country that no longer feel safe or welcome because of the bigotry of others. Whatever the wider political situation elsewhere, Britian needs to deal with the issue on its own doorstep. British society should be one where people feel free, safe and welcome and I am sorry to hear that isn't the case. So please keep speaking up because your message is important for us all.

Gaza has not been flattened. There are images of what Gaza looks like, it is being filmed on a daily basis. There are some stes wich have bwen bombed, they are specific sites.

This thing is, i know far more Muslims than Jews, if i qere to take a side based on that, on who I know or who my neighbours are, it wouldn't be Israel. But i am not taking a aide, i am trying to redress the balance of information. I am on my phone and with intermittent wifi, so for that reason I can't give links.

What I say is widely known, it is no secret, there must be planty to be found about it, you go look it up! I have indirect connections with the UN, so have sources of information separate from the press too, as well as what I've read from a wide variety of other International sources. Yes I do read both sides, too.

YeGods yes specific sites. Schools. Hospitals. UN shelters. Power stations Ambulances. Homes. Mosques. Universities.
2 billion dollars with of damage and something like 40% of buildings destroyed.

Out of interest, have any of you seen the images of the tunnels under Gaza leading into Israel? Most of those originate from under these hospitals, schools etc, as do the weapon stores. They have been published on the internet.

I can't help getting the feeling that people don't want to believe what is right in front of them and I posted on the other thread that is in a similar vein to this.

If the same thing was happening to any other democracy, the majority would stand shoulder to shoulder supporting their freedom. However, in this scenario, people just don't seem to want to listen - it really beggars belief.

Prisoners in prisons have been making tunnels to the outside since prisons were first constructed.

Do you think it is normal to bomb a hospital even if there is a tunnel under it? What about a school? Do you think it is OK to bomb a school with little children in it, even if there is a tunnel under it?

Even if you want to bomb a school, what would be your reason for doing it during school hours, when you are sure to blow up little children? Why couldn't Israel wait until the night if the goal was to blow up the entrance of a tunnel? If you have an answer, I'd love to hear it.

There is not a country on earth I would support doing what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza. Why do people keep saying things like this?

Why do tunnels make the mass slaughter of civilians acceptable.

Also, sick of people claiming that anyone criticising the Israeli state "doesn't know the history". There are two responses to that:

1. Yes, we do know the history.

2. What super complex historical knowledge makes the mass slaughter of civilians justifiable?

Honestly, I almost give up (I said almost).

Hamas are a terrorist organisation that are continuously sending rockets to Israel, and firing them from schools and hospitals. They have built a network of tunnels to carry out these attacks. Would you rather the people of Israel just allowed this to carry on? Or accepted the constant firing if missiles on their people.

As I have said, if this was happening to the Americans or Brits, I don't think they would have been half as willing to try and keep the peace.

People blame the Israelis for protecting their own people, how dare so few of them die compared to the Palestinians, how dare they invest in shelters and technology. What would any other democracy do? And if any other democracy was protecting itself, as they have done, they would not be criticised as Israel is being.

What is going on there is horrific and my heart does out to every Israeli and Palestinian, but if you can't see that Israel are not the enemy of the people of Palestine but Hamas, the very people they elected. Even the Egyptians agree and they are hardly Israel's biggest fans.

Are you on a rant? You haven't answered a single question I asked .

I'll make it super simple. Just one question:

If a school has to be bombed, why not bomb it in the night when no children will be there?

If a terrorist organisation sends a rocket out from a school, obviously the Israelis are going to retaliate immediately, they are not going to wait another 12 hours so more citizens are at risk.

The Israelis are even warning by leaflets and texts, you don't see the same courtesy being offered by Hamas.

So you have now changed your propaganda justification of killing small children in their school from but there are tunnels under those schools to but rockets were fired from those schools

How many Israelis have those rockets killed? Did you say "None"? Oooh, that definitely warrants brutally massacring scores of children

I don't know what passes for humanity in your planet, but over here, if a terrorist fires from a school, we don't bomb the school to kill one guy along with a hundred little children. I don't know what kind of person you must be to say that is acceptable

To those who accuse us of not being able to understand the complexities, what do you think of this Henry Siegman interview. A former Zionist and President of the US/Middle East Project, he seems fairly clued up and clearly exposes the lies of the Israelis. 9th story down.

m.democracynow.org/tags/4

These are a brilliant read. The transcripts for the Henry Siegman interviews.

m.democracynow.org/stories/14539

m.democracynow.org/stories/14542

Even the head of the UN has unequivocally condemned the attack on the school (emphasis mine):

"Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, said the attack was "outrageous and unjustifiable" and demanded "accountability and justice". The UN said its officials had repeatedly given details of the school and its refugee population to Israel.

We have international law for a reason. No one should be allowed to breach it.

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/world-disgrace-gaza-un-shelter-school-israel

Was that one of the schools Hamas bombed, or Israel? Hamas do bomb populated buildings and blame it on Israel, it isn't clear at the time to outsiders or reporters or even world leaders where exactly the firing is coming from. It becomes clear later on, when all the fuss has died down, but then when the truth is out, if it turns out that Hamas has actually killed any of these people, what will your reaction be? What is Hamas' justificatiin for bombing Gaza, or for jamming radio and text signals and spreading lies about leaflet drops so that innocent people are killed? You haven't answered that.

If Hamas were to keep peaceful borders with neighbours and actually formed a workable government and engaged in rational discussions then by now Gaza would have had no problems with Egypt or Israel. Hamas is no friend to Gaza.

The reason for bombing a building in daylight is obvious, it is to make a precision strike on just the target where the weapons are sited and to minimise the risk of missing to as much extent as possible. Why does Hamas use schools to fire from and store weapons under? It looks very much so that they can mislead the media and use people like you to make Israel look bad and try to spead more hatred in as many ways possible.
No, I repeat, what Israel do is not, in my view, right or just. But Hamas are not the good guys.

yegods

if it turns out that Israel has actually killed any of these people, what will your reaction be?

PigletJohn, don't be ridiculous, of course they have, I have not said otherwise! I haven't said that Israel are not responsible, just that there are two sides to this and the majority of people posting on the subject refuse to say anything bad about Hamas. I have said that the bombing is terrible, ALL of it, and the killing is horrible, all of it. So many here are piling all the blame on Israel and wont have a word said against Hamas, as though when it is not that simple.

11 United Nations peace keepers who have been killed in Gaza recently are being remembered in Geneva today and in UN offices around the world. They should not have died. They should not have died, whoever killed them, nor should anyone else who has been killed in this bloody fiasco of a war.

PigletJohn, what do you think the solution to this conflict is?