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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

AIBU, to be concerned about increasing anti-semitism throughout Europe

621 replies

DikTrom · 28/07/2014 21:23

Yesterday's Sunday Times had a number of articles about increased anti-semitism in the UK. Same is happening in the Netherlands and even more so in France and Germany.

OP posts:
TheTravellingLemon · 01/08/2014 08:14

I don't really know what to say. I have looked to mumsnet over the years for reassurance. Through trying to conceive, childbirth, breastfeeding. I've made friends on here, I've tried to support others in times of crisis. I've also had a laugh! I've been quoted in the talk roundup and even on buzzfeed! I came here once again looking for support and instead I feel physically sick.

Was I being naive to think a pport to those of us around the country who are having to make tough decisions for the safety of our families? In hindsight, yes I was.

How this thread has been allowed to sink to this is beyond me but has only served to confirm my fears that this is no longer a country that will provide a safe home for my children.

Piglet John I had a response all typed out for you, but frankly, it's not worth it. You say you abhor all forms of racism equally. I say that is a lie. There is no excuse. When I was a teenager my friend had a gun held to his head because he had a Jewish badge on his school blazer. When I was a child I got kicked out of a sleepover in case I 'cut anything off in the night'. When I was in my twenties I got told by a friend's mum that she didn't realise jews were so clean. When I was in my thirties I got told by a work colleague that jews like me know how to get the money. When I was at school we had a field that was only used for evacuating children during ombthreats. It was used a lot. That is only a small minority of incidents I have experienced in my life and whilst nothing compared to living in a war zone, they are what this thread was supposed to be about.

Quivering · 01/08/2014 08:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 01/08/2014 08:34

I hope you haven't hidden the thread OP.

Having read the whole thread I would say that you are entirely justified in your opinion and concern about the increase in anti semitism.

What is clear from this thread is that many people are quite comfortable with it because they feel it is justified.

All the replies that state that of course it is appalling but... I find that very disturbing. What do the Jews in Europe have to do with Israel?

It appears that one kind of prejudice is still acceptable.

It's really disturbing to read.

TheTravellingLemon · 01/08/2014 08:34

I was crying yesterday to my lovely, intelligent, very secular stepfather. I felt scared and trapped. He said 'don't leave. This is the most tolerant country on earth. Nowhere is safer than here.' And I left feeling better. I have a knot in my chest again now.

YeGodsAndLittleFishes · 01/08/2014 08:39

Well Backinthering* what do you think is the reason for Israel bombing schools, hospitals and mosques if not to destroy the weapons that are hidden there? They are not aiming indesciminently at children and civilians, Hamas have put those weapons & used these people there, not Israel!

Would you like me to regurgitate what Hamas say in their charter? In it they say they intend to annihilate Israel.

So, no, Israel is not justified in these killings but that does not automatically make Hamas good or right! Let us be clear about what is going on here. All terrorists are my enemy as far as I am concerned.

The increase in violence against Jews predates the killing of the Israeli boys, the Palestinian boys and the Israeli bombing of Hamas military sites.

Just so you know, because of Hamas actions of using UN schools and some hospitals as military sites, is has become impossible to send urgent sensitive medical equipment to treat Palestinians. The grants are available, the equipment is ready to be sent but there are civilians who cannot have their illnesses tested or treated because of Hamas being bloody stupid. They have to be risk assessed and consider whether they would strip down the equipment and use the component parts as weapons and since they will use a whole hospital or school to store weapons, they are clearly not a stable enough 'government' to be trusted . I hate that. That doesn't come from any Israeli propaganda. It is fact. Independent assessors have checked out the facts.

And you come on here and defend Hamas and people who return from jihadist wars in Syria and Iraq to then attack innocent Jewish civilians? Shame on you! Really. How many Muslims are there in the world right now fighting and killing each other? These are the ones who are causing trouble when they return home to Europe. And you want to focus on a nation which wants to stop its people being terrorised and having missiles sent over its border every single day, from terrorists who want to wipe them out completely? You want to stir up more trouble and jump on every single little thing that a Jewish person says or doesnt say and pick at it until they say that Israel should not defend itself? You want Jewish people to stick their neck out and say these things when they are already afraid for their families and don't want to draw attention to themselves? Why should they, it has no more to do with them than Orange marches in Belfast have to do with me. Why bring it up, it has nothing to do with violent racist hooligans attacking innocent Europeans.

Quivering · 01/08/2014 08:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheTravellingLemon · 01/08/2014 08:50

I just got the passports back actually and have a secret stash of dollars! I thought that was a good currency. Let's hope it never comes to that.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 01/08/2014 08:53

I still believe the majority of British people are not racist, are tolerant, and take pride in the fact that they judge everyone they meet on an individual basis. My Bulgarian friend has been working here seven years, and when all the headlines were in the papers about job-snatching Bulgarians, I was concerned for her, but she says she hasn’t encountered any issues.

This thread has certainly been an education though. I’m inclined to think some of the people on it are those weird anomalys that mumsnet throws up sometimes - they don’t necessarily indicate what’s going on in the general population.

Quivering · 01/08/2014 08:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 01/08/2014 09:02

This thread has indeed been an education.

ThePeoplePleaser · 01/08/2014 09:14

I am someone, like many, who has had hoardes of family in Palestine murdered in cold blood by the Israelis. I am a devout Muslim and I do not support the state of Israel's existence due to it being an unlawful transaction between two Europeans and the fact that Muslims in Palestine are kept like dogs. Those are my opinions.

But I will never ever ever condone violence, prejudice or discrimination against Jews. Jews are our brothers and sisters in faith and these people have also been defending Palestine on the streets of London and in the US to name a couple of places. Anyone who thinks it's ok to ransack a shop or to say vile things to a Jewish individual based on the actions of an Israeli psychopath of a prime minister, is misguided and needs proper help.

There is a lot of anger towards Israel and that's understandable but as a fellow Muslim said to me the other day, we should never ever stoop to the level of thinking it's acceptable to murder or maim innocent Jewish civilians as a tit for tat. Palestinians have been oppressed and chained like animals by those zionists for years, so right or wrong, when Hamas or other groups retaliate, it should not be met with an atom of surprise nor outrage.

The vast vast majority of Muslims, Palestinians and Jews just want peace. This war is not and never has been about religion. Netanyahu the adulterer and child killer, the perpetrator of horrific war crimes and the man who claims to be a Jew yet does not practise the religion, is the cause of this, as are all the other oppressors who came before him. People are angry, they are hurt, they've lost loved ones and it feels like nobody cares, whilst Israel rain down bombs and shells on an already fragile land. Tensions are running high, but nobody should lower themselves to discriminating against others or condoning violence. It's wrong full stop. I hope for the safety of Jewish children and babies just as I do for my own people. It's basic humanity, nothing to do with religion.

dreamingbohemian · 01/08/2014 09:30

AFAIK, true violent racism (I mean, beating people with an iron bar or burning down their home) is so rare as to be practically unknown. I know such cases do occur in Russia and Jerusalem, I would be shocked to hear of a case near me. A silly sign in a shop window, which is promptly dealt with by the police, does not seem in the same league, though no doubt opinion differs. From what I have seen locally, the people who see nothing wrong with racist speech tend to be older retired, which perhaps means that education, awareness, and changing attitudes are having the right effect.

Now who's being ignorant.

It actually explains a lot, if the people who want to diminish anti-Semitism and far-right violence and constantly derail this thread actually think it's limited to some silly signs in shop windows and old people.

CoteDAzur · 01/08/2014 09:30

"what do you think is the reason for Israel bombing schools, hospitals and mosques if not to destroy the weapons that are hidden there?"

Of course. Countries never have ulterior motives, and what you see is always what you get. Bless Smile

Even if there were bombs and other weapons in those schools and hospitals, a sane government would not consider bombing them as a means of disposal because:

(1) Blowing up some bombs (chemical, nuclear, biological) can be a very bad idea, as even a light breeze would blow the fallout all over Israel

and

(2) Nobody with an ounce of humanity would deliberately blow up scores of children, regardless of what weapon is hidden behind them.

CoteDAzur · 01/08/2014 09:30

"because of Hamas actions of using UN schools and some hospitals as military sites, is has become impossible to send urgent sensitive medical equipment to treat Palestinians"

Oh you are a gem Grin

It has been impossible to send medical equipment and supplies to Palestinians because of Israel's border blockade.

If you dare open your eyes to reality one day, try reading some news.

“At this moment there are people who are buried under the rubble. There are people who are bleeding in various areas in the Gaza strip,” he said.
“Most of these people, if not all, are civilians and they [MEDICS] are not allowed to go forward for a few hundred metres to collect them to safety and to hospital.
“We want to insist that this kind of attack on civilians, on houses, on hospitals, on ambulances and other facilities are serious violations of international law.”
Earlier this week, the Doctors Without Borders (Medecins Sans Frontieres) organisation said it witnessed several attacks on medical personnel by Israeli forces.
“These are real people and real children; 43 per cent of the population in Gaza are kids. Over 700 are dead now and half of them are children. It’s infanticide.”

From here.

"In an unprecedented criticism of the Israeli siege of Gaza, a senior official in the Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) humanitarian charity has described his organisation’s work among the 1.8 million besieged Palestinian refugees as akin to being “in an open-air prison to patch up prisoners in between their torture sessions”. Jonathan Whittall, head of humanitarian analysis at MSF, who worked in Libya during the 2011 war, in Bahrain during the uprising of the same year, in Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, South Sudan and Darfur, has bluntly asked his colleagues: “At what point does MSF’s repeated medical action in an unacceptable situation [like Gaza] become complicity with aggression and oppression?”

An entire population is trapped in what is essentially an open-air prison ,” Mr Whittall writes. “They can’t leave and only the most limited supplies – essential for basic survival – are allowed to enter. The population of the prison have elected representatives and organised social services. Some of the prisoners have organised into armed groups and resist their indefinite detention by firing rockets over the prison wall. However, the prison guards are the ones who have the capacity to launch large-scale and highly destructive attacks on the open-air prison.”

In a comparison which is also certain to infuriate Israel, Mr Whittall, who is based in Beirut, says that the limitations of humanitarian groups in Gaza are not unique. “In 2012,” he writes, “MSF closed its projects in the prisons of Misrata, Libya. Our doctors were outraged to be in a position where we were providing treatment to patients who were being tortured by state authorities. At the time, MSF spoke out strongly: ‘Our role is to provide medical care to war casualties and sick detainees, not repeatedly to treat the same patients between torture sessions’ .”

From here.

Quivering · 01/08/2014 09:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoteDAzur · 01/08/2014 09:43

I am responding to a post on this thread. So no, I can't.

HTH.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 01/08/2014 09:43

I agree people pleaser, the vast vast majority of Palestinians, Jews and Muslims do just want peace.

CatThiefKeith · 01/08/2014 09:45

I had no idea anti-semitism in Europe was so widespread. Sad

This thread has been truly eye-opening, thank you all for making me slightly less ignorant on a Friday morning.

Quivering · 01/08/2014 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dreamingbohemian · 01/08/2014 09:56

Yes, here are some stats from France in 2012 (ie before the latest conflict):

www.thelocal.fr/20130220/anti-semitic-attacks-soar-by-58-in-france

Makes the important point that anti-Semitic and Islamophobic attacks tend to rise in tandem.

CoteDAzur · 01/08/2014 09:58

Quivering - I'll leave you holding your "arse". You can't tell me what to say and where to say it. HTH Wink

Quivering · 01/08/2014 10:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoteDAzur · 01/08/2014 10:06

Racism is of course not limited to acts of violence (burning down people's homes or beating them with iron bars).

PigletJohn · 01/08/2014 10:08

CotedAzur

I suppose you are required to be obedient to the idea that anti-semitism is in some way worse than all other forms of racist and ethnic hatred. Provided you accept that initial premise, you can easily believe that any suggestion to the contrary must be anti-semitic, and you can brush aside examples of institutionalised Israeli hatred by saying "everybody knows that...."

You can even declare that a person who despises all forms of racial and ethnic hatred equally must be lying, and must be an anti-semite.

This reaction can make sense to you if you think that racial and ethnic hatred can be more or less special depending on who it is aimed at.

If not, not.

CoteDAzur · 01/08/2014 10:08

"I can tell you what your posts make me feel"

You can PM me for that. Your posts about my posts are derailing the thread.

I really care about your feelings. I do.