AIBU, to be concerned about increasing anti-semitism throughout Europe

[DikTrom]

Yesterday's Sunday Times had a number of articles about increased anti-semitism in the UK. Same is happening in the Netherlands and even more so in France and Germany.

PJ, all forms of racism are repugnant. But the OP was about anti-Semitism in Europe. If you wish to discuss Islamophobia in Israel, perhaps you could start another thread?

I don't see how you can argue that it is worse to be a victim of racism if it is committed at a national level. Surely it doesn't make any difference to the state of being a 'victim' in terms of things like PTSD. It's an 'absolute'- you either are or you're not a victim of racism- other peoples' predicaments are irrelevant to how you feel about the actual crime? How is anti-semitism across Europe being 'understood' a way forward. My DH would consider himself a Secular Jew as would his Mother as would a vast majority of his extended family, indeed one cousin posted and shared the Jon Snow video on FB that highlights the youthful nature of a majority of the population of Gaza and how horrific these attacks are. How could it be argued, understood that such people are to bear the brunt of anti-semitism? It can't be and it is morally repugnant to even suggest you can see why people would feel this way!

Well that's an interesting point. Obviously it can't be true that the anti-semitic variety of racism and ethic hatred is any better or worse than any other variety. I'm still interested in finding out attitudes to the different varieties of hatred.

Do you think that Jews are uniquely victims in the world of racism and ethic hatred?

In Europe, there are laws prohibiting racism and ethic hatred, and racial or ethnic discrimination, which is why I have been pleased to see that the police have been involved in events commented on here, and arrests have been made. The disgusting chanting in the Tel Aviv streets would certainly be a crime here.

Are there similar laws about hate speech and hate actions, and about racial or ethnic discrimination, in Israel? Would that chanting be considered a crime in Israel? If there were large numbers of police and soldiers on the scene, for example if they were on duty to control a non-racist demonstration, would they be expected to intervene?

I incorrectly seem to think that there was agreement that the increasing anti-semitism across Europe was a shared cause of concern. It is now clear to me that there is no such agreement at all. Quite a few posters seem very concerned about Palestinians especially, Muslims in general, I don't feel much condemnation about Jewish people in Europe being attacked.

In the Netherlands a piece of research was undertaken a while ago by A Belgian university which found the levels of anti-semitism under Dutch Muslims mindblowingly high, seems the sam on Mumsnet.

I noticed whilst working in education anti semitic comments were not pounced on in the same way as a comment about someone's ethnicity. hard to express this but I am sure you get the picture.

I am going to hide this threat.

I am appalled. To me it seems that what happened in the Second World War could happen again here in Europe.

My Jewish DP had a huge argument at work a few years with some idiot spouting off about 'Jews running the world'. DP ended up being slammed against a wall.

Although the other guy was sacked DP ended up having to leave as HR refused to see that his aggressor was being racist as they where both white and they refused to see anything wrong with his comments. It still fills me with so much hurt that this can be seen as acceptable? (Other was was sacked purely for the aggression).

It's worrying that the most recent of posters seem to refuse to try and take more of an unbiased view, for a more civilised discussion.

YANBU to be concerned about growing anti-semitism in Europe and the current events in Gaza will only aggravate that. However, I often wonder why a nation largely made up of a race that was so persecuted and almost annihilated by the Nazis, is willing to persecute and oppress the Palestinians on a day to day basis.

I think you have largely answered your own question except imagine your life in a bomb shelter, the threat of nails bombs and tunnels. That's why....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/antisemitism-is-on-the-rise--and-has-been-since-before-current-gaza-conflict-9641133.html

well that newspaper article is certainly an unwelcome surprise to me.

Also, I was thinking of a recent event in Haifa, not Jerusalem.

I am going to hide this threat.
I am appalled. To me it seems that what happened in the Second World War could happen again here in Europe.

But this is AIBU?
If you aren't prepared to listen to the answers, why did you ask the question?

Please don't be so sad Dik and witch.

It's an odd thing for me to say, as a Christain, white, American woman from the Deep South, but I really, really like Jewish people. I was so pleased when I met my neighbour in West Essex and realised she was Jewish.

Why? All through my childhood I had Jewish friends. Their families invited me to Passovers and Hannuka celebrations. Their parents, wise, kind and funny gave me their take on life in a gentle and guiding way as a teenager. No one was ever pushy or proselytising. The old fashioned, nasty stereotype of Jewish people being avaricious, insular and greedy couldn't be further from my own experience repeated time after time of warm, generous and intelligent people.

There are many people like me. We just don't shout the loudest all time. It's scary, with some of the posters on here!

Pigletjohn - what is the point of all these videos? Are they connected to anti smitism in europe? Are you trying to encourage anti semitism by such videos as the common link seems to be jewih people sayng horrible things. Are you suggesting this is how jews think?

We know some israelis say horrible things about palestinians. We know some palestinians say equally horrible things about jews and israelis.

Maybe the point is to see if any of the people who complain about anti-semitism have anything to say about appalling racist and ethnic hatred and violence by Jewish citizens in Israel.

Generally they won't even acknowledge it.

From my perspective all racist and ethnic hatred is equally vile. I refuse to treat anti-semitism as if it is in some way special.

PigletJohn in doing that though, you are singling out anti semitism as not equally vile. Hamas are intent on killing all Jews. They will use all means possible. They hide their missles in schools, in UN schools where if found, the UN have no choice but to report them to the authorities - who are Hamas, so nothing is done. Hamas use Gaza citizens (mainly children) as human shields. Don't you think they should have some responsibility for the loss of life of those children they are using?
Israel have repeatedly signed up to peace deals. Netenjahu recently agreed to a no fire policy if Hamas will also sign, but Hamas keep firing and have never stopped. Hamas are intent on expansion and attack and will do anything, including sacrificing all the people of Gaza whilst lying to them. There cannot be a two nation state while Hamas behave in this way. How can Israel give more land and opportunity to a terrorist group intent on killing them all? Hamas will not negotiate, will never stop trying to kill more Jews.

So yes, it is vile. But it is vile on all sides, not just from one standpoint.

Actually, it seems to be me that PigletJohn isn't singling out antisemitism as not equally vile, he/she sees it as lesser, in spite of the posters here who have written about their own fears and experiences, who are actually wondering about fleeing based on their experiences. There are plenty of threads, usually generating more heat than light (including accusations that people who don't post to PigletJohn's requirements are agents of the Israeli goverment, accusations which are both laughable and breathtakingly arrogant) which is why I have read them but don't post on them, about what is going on in Gaza at the moment. So what is the point of hijacking this specific subject about the rise of antisemitism in Europe too? Unless it is to imply that the attacks on European Jews are justified by what is going on in the Middle East.

I think it's quite clear from the threads across the board what pigletjohns stance and aim is. I would suggest we discuss the matter in hand and not pay attention to constant attempts to derail.

Oh, I think the posting of those videos on a thread about anti semitism in Europe makes it very clear just how equally the poster views all types of racial hatred.

YeGodsAndLittleFishes you've just regurgitated the Israeli propaganda line wholesale. It's being used as a justification to murder children.
Sorry for detail but that had to be said.