AIBU, to be concerned about increasing anti-semitism throughout Europe

[DikTrom]

Yesterday's Sunday Times had a number of articles about increased anti-semitism in the UK. Same is happening in the Netherlands and even more so in France and Germany.

Piglet - Sorry, I don't get what you said in your last post, at all.

if there is a stereotype about what Jewish people look like we must fit it, because my brothers and I have always been asked. The weird thing is that appearance wise we kind of fit anything and when I walk down the street in some suburbs I get glared at for what I think is not having a headscarf on...

Not so weird, mimishimmi. Your stunning grandmother has semitic looks, typical of the middle Eastern area. A majority of people with this type of appearance are either jewish or muslim. I would hazard a guess that most anti-semitism is actually anti Semitic without reference to religion or politics, which are just excuses for the broader & deeper hatred of a phenotype.

Depressing, isn't it.

The travellinglemon, for example, asserts that my claim to despise all forms of racism is a lie.

Bambambini suggests that I am trying to encourage anti-semitism.

Yegodsandlittlefishes alleges that I am singling out anti-semitism as less serious than other forms.

Quivering alleges that I am trying to justify antisemitism.

All of these are lies.

From now on, on any thread about Islamaphobia in Europe, I plan to say: Why aren't you worried about all racism, not just Islamaphobia?
Or I'll say aww, you’re a bit confused it's not actually Islamaphobia.
Or I'll say, pah, it's not actually that bad, it's much better than being shot at just because you go to school.

If anyone tries to get the thread back on track, I'll post lots and lots of videos of Muslim extremism and violence in the Middle East. If that doesn't get them going, I will just put in loads of chants like "kill the Jews' or Death to Americans etc." I will pretend this is relevant.

I will insist on talking about the terrible human rights issues in the Middle East, lets say, Egypt or Saudi, or the war in Syria, and I will demand that everyone condemns it, and I will say, "Is it any wonder you Muslims have trouble?" I will make it clear that that in my eyes, you are not an individual, you are representative for what ever other Muslim in the world ever did or does.

No, not really, I wouldn't do that, because I know exactly what that would make me.

Funny you should quote that, Cote, as DD just last night sad she wants to work for MSF!

Yes, I repeat, it is vile on all sides, but it is not just one sided aggression as so many want to portray it. War is absolutely horrific, yes, and yes I have had friends who were murdered by their neighbours just because of their religion, during war time. (By Muslims actually). There are no words. Hatred and spreading harm and inciting violence is not the answer.

I think it is essential to challenge discrimination but I think it's dangerous to view it in isolation. Yes, reported instances of anti-semitism have increased in the UK. Persecution of Muslims has also increased. Discrimination against gypsies and Roma has increased. Although tbf discrimination against the latter groups has always been at high levels.

There are interesting reports from the European Commission for Human Rights. One states that of the groups targeted by the Nazis - Jews; disabled; homosexuals; gypsies/Roma then the latter are the only group who haven't had a raft of legislation to protect them from further discrimination. They are also the only minority group in Europe that hasn't benefited from the implementation of policies to improve their living conditions. They are consistently disadvantaged in education, employment and housing. Discrimination against them has somehow always been acceptable and that's obvious whenever there is a thread on MN about gypsies. Comments are made that would not be acceptable if directed at any other minority group.

My point is that there is a growing intolerance of difference across Europe and I do think viewing anti-semitism as somehow other or different from other persecution is not helpful. We should challenge discrimination and persecution of minorities wherever and whenever we witness it.

Yegods

Quite right, it is certainly not one-sided aggression as some might like to portray it.

Totally agree JFR

The article for the doctor refusing treatment is here and also says a woman has been refused entry to a clothes shop purely for being Jewish. Just looked at the news, over 100 anti Semitic attacks this month, in Britain, here and here shows swastikas across Rome. They aren't words, but swastikas are an easy way of saying 'we want you dead, we want all of you dead, we support what Hitler did' which is horrifying.

I reported two bits of graffiti in a children's playground (run by a volunteer management committee). They removed the crude genitalia months ago, but the swastika is still there!

No.

Do you?

Solomon, it could be because it is classed as a hate crime and still under investigation? I hope they catch who did it.

"it is vile on all sides, but it is not just one sided aggression as so many want to portray it. War is absolutely horrific"

This is not "war", though. That would be between the armies of two countries.

This is brutal subjugation of a group of people in a strip of land surrounded and controlled by a foreign power.

And yes, the "aggression" is mainly one-sided.

I'm holding an unruly child at arm's length while it tries to hit me. I'm bigger, stronger, and my arms are longer so his feeble blows don't hurt, they just piss me off.

If I were to hammer the brat's little face to a bloody pulp in response, would you be ok with that?

If not, why not?

Quivering I really wasn't trying to get into a 'this minority is persecuted more' game. Roma and gypsies do find it difficult to access healthcare because they have no fixed address. The entire infrastructure in Europe is biased against travelling communities accessing education, healthcare and having a right to follow their traditional way of life (because of lack of safeguarding of their right to live on sites).

However, as I said, I wasn't playing a game of ignore other persecuted minorities or who is most persecuted. I just think it is important to look at the patterns of abuse across Europe. If we focus on the one area that touches us then we can view it disproportionately iyswim

My family includes Jews who fled Europe, Eastern Europeans, Irish who fled famine, Indians and gypsies. For that reason, I'm aware of their personal histories of persecution and also the wider historical context. I think it is a worrying time because I think intolerance against any perception of difference is growing.

"Well, there are far more posts condemning Israel than condemning Hamas"

That might have something to do with the fact that Israel is the one blowing up little children into bloody bits

BTW you have never seen anti-jewish from me. You have however doubtless seen plenty of criticism from me of the actions of the State of Israel, especially for killing and maiming thousands of people, the majority of them non-combatants, and many of them children.

Do you conflate that with anti-jewish?

Couldn't they somehow cover it up? What about Jewish people, gay parents, disabled parents or children who could see that (and even if they didn't see that, it would still matter of course)? People shouldn't have to go to a playground and walk past something which says they want to exterminate your family, your kids, your friends, everyone like you.

Except that Hamas does not have tanks, fighter jets, drones, navy or iron dome...