to think children shouldn't choose if they have contact with NRP if no welfare concerns?

[HopeYoureHappy]

DP has a contact order regarding his 7 and 9 year old children. Their mum has constantly breached it and uses the reason that it's the childrens choice - for example - DS doesn't want phone contact, he's busy on the iPad, DD has decided she'd rather go to her friends party and she wants me to take her, DS doesn't want to come because you don't have a paddling pool and he thinks he'll get too hot

Sometimes it's both DC that don't come, sometimes just one. Last time DD 'didn't feel likeit' and when DS ddiscussed a planned and paid for day out next week, he asked if DD was coming and DP replied 'no idea, she'll be the one missing out if she chooses not to.' AIBU to think that this is the wrong attitude and that the DC shouldn't be able to choose whether they come for contact any more than they can choose whether or not to go to school? They are always happy here and there's no welfare concerns but they are very much manipulated by their mum who bribes them to stay ('we could've gone to Thorpe park, but you're going to your dad's...) and tells them she'll ne lonely without them.

DP seems resigned to this messing around but they are back in court for review next month and I think he should ask the judge to ensure that DSC mum must adhere to the order and not put the DC in the middle. What do you think?

It's better than the endless questions of 'so do you mean their biological mum or their adoptive mum' when I've previously just said mum as an example.

Huh? This is a step family not an adoptive family

I agree writer children don't want to do a lot of things, there is a contact order in place and both parents have to stick to it!

I'd say 11+ is old enough to make a choice, Elephants.

And quite frankly, children of 7 & 9 do not get to dictate what they will and will not be doing.
Some of you must have spines of elastic

Fide dear

Hence I said it's out of date and I slip into using it sometimes. Using the example of adoptive mums to explain why that term has been used by me before.

Shame on those who seem to imply that a relationship with the father is somehow less important than the one with the mother. I bet their are times when they would prefer to do other things than be with mum but we don't say that's wrong. Talk about double standards!! Children have a right to a relationship with their mother and their father. They may not have the emotional maturity to realise short term choices can impact on those relationships therefore it is up to the ADULTS to act responsibly and ensure access to both is maintained providing there is no physical or emotional abuse.

OP there are clearly a lot of people for whatever reason with an Anti Step Parent agenda so I would filter accordingly if I were you.

YANBU but your DP needs to fight this battle. What you are describing is potentially Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS) have a look on Google there is quite a lot of research on it now and the courts are starting to recognise it and take it seriously. Your DP needs to ensure he is insisting on contact rather than letting it slide. Then you'll see if there really is any interference from the RP or whether his apathy is adding to the situation.

I don't think children from loving, stable relationships could be bought. Dd1 certainly would not. Dd2 still loves her father, she always sees the best in people, but even she is growing tired of her needs neglected by him.

We were supposed to have joint custody. I was more than happy with this arrangement.

The children weren't. They were constantly turning up at my house or workplace when they were supposed to be with their dad.

He did the buying pizzas, watching movies, going out for ice cream, promising to buy them things (that I'd end up having to buy them to avoid them being disappointed) etc. They didn't want any of that. They wanted a clean and quiet home environment, where they have a parent who will listen to them, put them to bed and read to them.

He just "babysits" them at mine now, while I work and I'm looking for school hours work to put an end to this.

I realise this is just my own, but I've seen similar with my sister's kids. She doesn't have a pot to piss in, he takes them camping, buys them xboxes and has days out to theme parks. The youngest cries every time she has to leave her mum.

Children are not stupid.

OP seriously just stay out of it. Your DP should be fighting this one, not you.

Later, when things have settled, there will be a natural role for you.

Elbowing in and bitching about the DSCs much loved mother will help nobody and just poison your own air.

I don't think it's just about the children being bought.

Children from loving homes are still open to emotional manipulation.

And the mother saying how lonely she will be if the children go to see their dad and wouldn't they rather do x, y or a with her instead is definitely so etching I would class as this.

I am sure my children would much rather be with their dad sometimes, than with me. The op future step kids have a mum and a dad, relationship with both is important, unless tgeur are abuse or welfare issues.

Wow there are some vicious vipers out today!!

OP repost in the step parent board!!

You are the father partner and it's very clear that you want the best for his kids. Another age they should not be subjected to the whims of one or other parent to prevent them seeing the other.

You need to keep taking it back to court. Don't let up, every time she breeches it log it and hand it in to the court

Yanbu and the anti stepmum brigade are a vicious covern I am afraid aibu is nit a safe or welcome place for step parents

Where a child is allowed to refuse contact, there is no opportunity for things to change, to grow, to resolve. Teens that don't get on with a parent may well, under conditions of regular contact, develop a very different relationship with the parent in the fullness of time. But those who are allowed to avoid contact are unnaturally separated and suspended in the relationship at its lowest point. How dreadful for those children, deprived of the opportunity to have a relationship that grows, changes, matures.

.... hear hear Brgrl

Fedupbutfine ..... I think I could perhaps have worded that a bit better and said "Parties - should be discussed in advance, and weekends swapped around to accommodate them where possible and sensible to do so. I agree that "ferrying around" should be a joint responsibility if at all possible although significant distance between parents can mean it makes more sense for RP to do this and therefore to "swap" whole weekends so they both get "time off" as well as time with the kids. Where it's not possible for NRP to share "ferrying" yet RP loses out by not seeing kids then again that's something that can be negotiated surely ? But with diplomacy and tact, and not by telling kids' dad that "his" time has been cancelled without discussion and at short notice because the RP's time with them is more important ? You know, bottom line, I haven't got much time for my ex but I am so thankful I was able to rise above how I felt about him and maintain the moral high ground by being civil, considerate, communicative etc because ultimately, that benefitted our child more than it did us and he has a good relationship with us both. I found that there were times when it seemed almost impossible to fit everything in such as my time with child, his time with child, my time "off", parties, scouting weekends, visits to other relatives, playdates and so on but I personally found the key was keeping my ex fully informed about what was (potentially) going on so he never got any last minute surprises and by doing that he responded well and would usually suggest solutions, compromises, shared responsibilities himself anyway. And everyone was therefore happy - most of all our child. Anyway I digress .......

And the mother saying how lonely she will be if the children go to see their dad and wouldn't they rather do x, y or a with her instead is definitely so etching I would class as this.

If the mother is saying this then if course the children will feel torn.

Fide what about their loving father . All op is doing is venting on an anonymous forum. In RL it is between the parents, but it's difficult not to get involved emotionally where she has a long term future with this man!

I'm just going to give you an older child's pov. My DD's friend, just 14
Her DF had an affair when she was 6 - reason for the break up but afaik he is single at the moment.
He had court order access, used to live close enough until a few months ago and it was every other weekend. Now he lives further away so it is weeks during the holidays and he comes up to stay at the weekend every month and takes them out. When he comes to visit he is very much a Disney dad.
From when DD met her friend (aged 9) to present she hasn't wanted to go to her dad's. Some of it maybe is her mum. But she really resented it. And just would rather be at home - near her friends and her things. She didn't enjoy her time there. Nothing to do with her mum being lonely etc... When he comes to visit spending money she takes the piss out of him with her friends.
Her elder sister is now 16 - no longer sees her DF at all. Sure as soon as DD's friend gets the chance she'll stop seeing him...
Having been on the sidelines (I don't really know her mum) I think a lot of the problem was the forcing to go ...and it being more about her DF than her. So there was a birthday sleepover on her dad's weekend she had to miss it because that would be depriving her dad of his contact time...it was all about him.

I think it is a really fine line...and maybe giving them the choice and seeing less of them now will lead to them choosing to see more of their DF in the future...

Fide what about their loving father

The OP isn't bitching about him is she?

The formal arrangments for contact should be adhered to. I'd wait and see what happens next month in the court review. Try not to interefere too much though.

"Children from loving homes are still open to emotional manipulation.

And the mother saying how lonely she will be if the children go to see their dad and wouldn't they rather do x, y or a with her instead is definitely so etching I would class as this."

A loving parent wouldn't ask a child to choose like this. It's a child's right to see both parents, so it's very wrong for a child to be put in the position where they are asked to choose. It's emotional blackmail and, IMO, is abusive.

but it's difficult not to get involved emotionally where she has a long term future with this man!

I know that Aero I'm a stepmother, which is why I get so pissed off at us being give a bad name by petty people like the OP

It really is so much better (and easier) to grow up, step back and let the parents do the parenting stuff

Lack of respect by RPs for their DCs' right and the NRP's right to enjoy a relationship free in the time allocated by a court order is, sadly, quite common.

RPs often think that they can call all the shots in their DCs' lives.

free of interference

Any children can be bought. What child wouldn't want to go to a theme park instead of playing out at home? My children are from a loving and stable home but would jump at the chance of going to the zoo with my dad over spending the day at home with me.

You can buy children. I can get ds to wash and change his clothes for a jaffa cake. Children often turn against the 'non fun practical parent', the one who disciplines them, makes them eat their veg, makes them clean their room etc in favour of the 'fun parent' who takes them to theme parks and gives them burgers. Some don't have the maturity to understand that they are being played.

I hope you're OK, OP. I get that you care about your DH and about his relationship with his children

I know Fide, that's why yes she should step back but it's hard to when your partner is upset about the situation and she has to comfort him or try to help him

He needs to help himself. If the order is being breached he can take legal steps. His GF bitching on here just looks catty.