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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think children shouldn't choose if they have contact with NRP if no welfare concerns?

353 replies

HopeYoureHappy · 23/07/2014 13:46

DP has a contact order regarding his 7 and 9 year old children. Their mum has constantly breached it and uses the reason that it's the childrens choice - for example - DS doesn't want phone contact, he's busy on the iPad, DD has decided she'd rather go to her friends party and she wants me to take her, DS doesn't want to come because you don't have a paddling pool and he thinks he'll get too hot Confused

Sometimes it's both DC that don't come, sometimes just one. Last time DD 'didn't feel likeit' and when DS ddiscussed a planned and paid for day out next week, he asked if DD was coming and DP replied 'no idea, she'll be the one missing out if she chooses not to.' AIBU to think that this is the wrong attitude and that the DC shouldn't be able to choose whether they come for contact any more than they can choose whether or not to go to school? They are always happy here and there's no welfare concerns but they are very much manipulated by their mum who bribes them to stay ('we could've gone to Thorpe park, but you're going to your dad's...) and tells them she'll ne lonely without them.

DP seems resigned to this messing around but they are back in court for review next month and I think he should ask the judge to ensure that DSC mum must adhere to the order and not put the DC in the middle. What do you think?

OP posts:
EarthWindFire · 23/07/2014 14:21

Clearly your DPs children do not consider your child to be their sibling. She isn't , you aren't married, she isn't even legally a step. You might be carrying their half siblings but it doesn't give you any right whatsoever to project that you know better than their natural parents.

How on earth do you know how the children think!? Confused

Pyjamaramadrama · 23/07/2014 14:22

You said it's going back to court to be reviewed?

Isn't there some kind of mediation where the children's wishes and feelings can be heard without being watched by either parent?

I also think that if one of their friends parties or their activities falls on contact week then their father and/or yourself should still make the effort to take them.

EarthWindFire · 23/07/2014 14:22

As a parent of school age children, the only time you get to do anything with them is weekends. So it is not unreasonable that their mother chooses to do fun things then. I do find it bizarre that you imply the woman is not allowed a takeaway on a weekend as it may detract from their relationship with their father. And if they do indeed pick Dominoes over daddy, it says a lot about how much they want to see him.

I wonder if she does do it 'every' weekend or just when they are due to see their dad?

catkind · 23/07/2014 14:23

Surprised at the general sentiment on this thread. Both places are home. If they want to go to a party fine, but dad can take them can't he? You don't plan for nice family days out on days you're not supposed to have your children with you.

Children up and saying they want to stay at home today is one thing.
Mum asking them to stay at home with promise of treats is quite another.

OP, I hope your partner will tell the court what's going on and try to get it straightened out better. It's in the children's interests to have stability and time with both their parents. Not parents having a wrestling match with their affection.

Original poster
HopeYoureHappy · 23/07/2014 14:23

They have a court date next month to enforce it. Then she'll Break it again. And repeat.

The children having a say how they spend their time isn't appropriate here - their mum will text DP saying the kids have a party so they aren't coming to you. The children haven't made that choice, she's made it - she'sytold them they'll lose friends if they miss parties. There's never the option of DP taking them despite him being willing.

OP posts:
TurboWithAKick · 23/07/2014 14:23

So what do you think should happen now op?

catsmother · 23/07/2014 14:23

Bloody hell .... the anti-step brigade are out in force I see.

Of course mum can take kids to theme parks. So why doesn't she do this on "her" weekend when their dad isn't expecting to see them.

Parties - should be discussed in advance, and weekends swapped around to accommodate them. That's what a reasonable person would do as I doubt very much mum gets the invite with just 1 or 2 days notice.

Why all this "why should kids be "forced" to do something they don't want to do" ....... fact is, if a child doesn't want to see their other parent that is, believe it or not, quite an unusual situation and the parties concerned should be questioning why that is. As there's no suggestion of any sort of abuse, alcoholism, drug taking, scary pit bulls or whatever, then I don't see why most kids would claim not to want to see their other parent unless some sort of undue pressure is being placed upon them where they feel awkward about doing so.

I was a single mum myself for 9 years and during that time my child never once said they didn't want to see their dad. They loved seeing him in fact and a computer game wouldn't have stopped them going. But then my child was never made to feel remotely "bad" about their relationship with their absent parent - and I made sure that "special" stuff was arranged at a time when they wouldn't feel pulled in two different directions.

Jeez - so many of you are so dismissive of the father and child relationship calling it "non essential" etc. Yet the papers are regularly full of reports about how children benefit from a solid relationship with BOTH their parents. I'd say that makes it pretty essential actually. And why attack the OP when she's showing concern for her partner ??

Tortoiseturtle · 23/07/2014 14:23

YANBU. Why shouldn't a long term step-mum take an interest in her stepchildren? I would think something was wrong if she didn't.
The kind of thing the OP is describing can quickly turn into a situation where the DCs rarely see their dad, don't feel they have much of a bond with him anymore, find it uncomfortable to be with adults they don't know very well anymore, etc. Then you get into a no contact situation, and they basically grow up without a dad. Not good for anyone.
The contact days should be sacrosanct, or swopped with another fixed day if there is a very special occasion like a wedding.

LadySybilLikesCake · 23/07/2014 14:24

It works both ways, I think. There's threads on here about 'Disney dads', dad's who spoil their children rotten when they see them. They shower them with gifts that their RP could never afford and take them to 'fun places' that the RP could never do. There's far more understanding on those threads.

You do need to go back to court, she's being unfair (and I say this as a RP). If she wants to do fun things with the children she should do so on her time. As for parties though, she can't re-arrange these but there's no reason why your DP/DH can't take them instead.

MyFairyKing · 23/07/2014 14:24

With regards to phone calls, I don't think children should be forced into it. My father insisted on phoning regularly (probably just to say "I phoned you kids every day") and I hated it. We had nothing to say and I resented him for it. My mum did encourage and gently persuade us to talk on the phone and to see him on the weekends. Guess what? I resented her too. I don't think children should be forced to see the NRP.

I also think that if children are not wanting to go, there is a problem. In our case, it was because my father had no idea how to parent. He took us to our grandmother every time we saw him. She had nothing children appropriate for us to do. We watched videos. It was boringly painful, even as children we could see it wasn't working. Contact isn't working, you need to find out why.

EarthWindFire · 23/07/2014 14:24

Isn't there some kind of mediation where the children's wishes and feelings can be heard without being watched by either parent?

The children's views would be heard yes, but it has varying weight depending on the ages of the children. In this case the children are still seen as young, so whilst listened to the decision would be the courts.

ApocalypseThen · 23/07/2014 14:24

Are you this hostile about their mum in front of them? And I can see how mum might organise trips, but friends birthday parties?

SlicedAndDiced · 23/07/2014 14:25

Really, are some of you feeling a bit dense in this heat?

Is it really hard to comprehend that only promising brilliant days out If they stay with mum during dad's contact time and saying how lonely mummy will be isn't a bit out of order? Or may be slightly influenced the children's choice or guilting them into it.

Not to mention that if there is a contact order in place it's usually for a damn good reason.

But nah fuck it. A relationship with their dad and half siblings isn't really important is it?

And how some of you got that the dad doesn't give a shit, despite the fact he's probably had to go through court to even get a contact order is astounding.

MagicMojito · 23/07/2014 14:25

... and sorry, but I hate the term "bio mum"she's just their mum.

Pyjamaramadrama · 23/07/2014 14:27

I also know that it can work both ways, it's easy to play Disney dad every other weekend (not suggesting your dh is), but the rp may rarely get a look in on treating the children.

I know ds wouldn't be bribed with takeaways if he was desperate to see someone.

And if she is manipulating them, then your dp needs to have a chat with them about why they seem to be unhappy to visit and how he can make it better. They will make their own minds up in the end.

hoobypickypicky · 23/07/2014 14:28

"So hooby. You see children having a relationship with their fathers, paternal family and siblings as 'inessential'?

How sad."

Oh you don't need to feel sad for me, OP. Hmm You've got the arse not because you think it's sad but because I've told you that other people's children and other people's parenting decisions and contact arrangements are none of your flaming business!

IMO forcing DC to go somewhere where it's not essential for them to go is counter-productive. A relationship is based on love and mutual respect, on both parties wanting to be in touch. This doesn't mean forcing it upon the DC and it doesn't mean it has to be a regular, weekly occurrence.

Many, many lone parents. widows and those abandoned by spouses who bring up their DC completely without the children's fathers can reassure you that a relationship with a father is inessential. Great if you can get it, but not essential.

FidelineAndBombazine · 23/07/2014 14:28

I see the Step Mother bashers are out in full force.

I am a stepmother Cats. Which is how I know the vinegary, interfering approach is a mistake.

D0oinMeCleanin · 23/07/2014 14:29

My eldest has recently decided she wants nothing more to do with my ex. She'll tolerate him being in our house, but won't interact with him, won't go to his house and won't have any part of days out he plans unless his family is there (she has no issue with his family, just him)

I won't force her to interact with him, but I have encouraged it. She point blank refuses.

There are no welfare concerns, he's just an emotionally abusive, piss poor excuse for a parent and she knows it. Dd2 is fast clocking on too and has been asking for me to source a childminder for the nights he has them. She'll still see him, she says, but just for a little while, every now and again.

I think you need to take a few steps back and your partner needs to look at why his kids don't want to see him.

fedupbutfine · 23/07/2014 14:29

Parties - should be discussed in advance, and weekends swapped around to accommodate them. That's what a reasonable person would do as I doubt very much mum gets the invite with just 1 or 2 days notice

Whilst I would agree mum should ask in advance if the child can attend the party, I don't agree a weekend should be swapped around because of it. My time with my children is just as precious as that of the NRP. I don't see why I should spend all my weekends ferrying the children around (aka not seeing them) whilst he enjoys his time without this responsibility. There is a need for both parents to be actually parenting their children - and this means doing the stuff that they would have done had the parents stayed together.

I would also say that we have gone, as a 'record' a run of 6 weekends consecutively with one of the children having a party to attend....so how would swapping around work then?!

basgetti · 23/07/2014 14:30

I think it is awful to offer incentives to children not to see the other parent, and put such young children in a position of choosing. In the absence of welfare concerns both parents should do their best to encourage and speak positively about the other parent and their time with them.

Original poster
HopeYoureHappy · 23/07/2014 14:30

They have made it clear to us they do want to come. They are afraid to say this to their mum as she 'gets lonely and upset.' She isn't a lone parent, she has a new DH and plenty of support from her parents. DP is scheduled to call them once per week and they're always too busy to talk. Their mum insists on calling them 2-3 times daily when they're with us and 'too busy' is not an option or contact is stopped next time.

OP posts:
FidelineAndBombazine · 23/07/2014 14:31

I think it is awful to offer incentives to children not to see the other parent, and put such young children in a position of choosing.

I wouldn't be so sure the OP is a reliable narrator bas

Pyjamaramadrama · 23/07/2014 14:33

I actually think that the father-child relationship is very essential, which is why it always frustrates the hell out of me to see step mums on here complaining rightly or wrongly about the bio mum. And the dad is apparently just resigned to not seeing his kids or has 'given up', and it's all the mothers fault, always.

I can't imagine a loving mother manipulating her kids into not knowing their dad if he was a decent loving father. And if she is there's something seriously wrong there and the dad (not stepmother) needs to get off his ass and fight for his children.

EarthWindFire · 23/07/2014 14:34

IMO forcing DC to go somewhere where it's not essential for them to go is counter-productive.

Thank goodness courts don't see children seeing their NRP as non essential!

Aeroflotgirl · 23/07/2014 14:34

I agree op, the father is the other half of that child, not a social situation Hmm, it is important if there are no abuse or welfare concerns, that contact is made, they are still too young in the eyes of the courts to have a say! If your dp has court ordered contact than it is being broken if mum is preventing contact. Sometimes kids don't get a say and would rather be doing something else, but they have a mum and a DAD, and it's important for them to have a relationship with him.