The question of inheritance

[tiggerkid]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is really the right thread for this but can't think of any other to discuss the topic of inheritance.

Recently my sister-in-law and her husband announced that she is pregnant with her 3rd child and because they need a bigger house to accommodate, they will be moving into my MIL's house, who has a much larger property. Naturally, they understand that this move will raise the issue of inheritance, so they decided to sell their house and give us a small proportion of the value of their house on the grounds that they will still need money to look after MIL and renovate her house to their taste. The house is currently decorated to MIL's taste and, apart from the fact that it's cosmetically old fashioned, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. MIL is certainly happy with it the way it is because she's been doing various work on and off in keeping with her own taste.

At present, MIL doesn't need any looking after. She is in excellent health and is of sound mind, so as far as we are concerned, they only want to move in to extend their living space so to speak. Because they live nearer MIL, they've had plenty of opportunity to talk her into this idea and convince her that it will be paradise on Earth once they all move in together.

While I completely understand and agree that the party looking after ageing parent absolutely needs a bigger share of any inheritance, am I being unreasonable believing that 1) it should be a discussion involving all parties affected by such a decision 2) any agreed value of our share of inheritance should be based on the value of MIL's property rather than the smaller house that my sister-in-law is seeking to move out of? and 3) the question of keeping large sums of money to redecorate the house to sister-in-law's taste should be out of the question because it has nothing to do with looking after ageing parents?

Sorry for the long message but I just find it so unfair that my sis-in-law just decided to move into a bigger house to improve her living conditions and keep 80% of the value of their own house to do whatever they want to do without ever discussing it with us or giving us any opportunity to speak about this. MIL has only mentioned it to us in passing and doesn't want to discuss this any further because she wants to avoid confrontation. The only thing she said was: well you, guys, are financially better off than they are anyway, which made me even more annoyed and upset. If there is a reason why we are financially better off, it is because my husband and I work our butts off while my sister-in-law sits on her backside playing on Facebook all day long. It feels like MIL believes that we need to be punished and penalised for our hard work while my sister-in-law needs to be rewarded for her Facebook efforts.

I know in the end it is MIL's decision and, unfortunately, one that appears to be driven by my sister-in-law exploiting MIL's fear of being left alone in her old age. Although I doubt that we can do much to change the situation, I am struggling to keep discussing this with my husband as I don't want to upset him but I do need some emotional support and understanding, hence this post. Thank you, all.

I would have thought that if MIL wanted to transfer the house to BIL and write a will, there may be contact with a solicitor needed - maybe there is hope there.

SIL sure is a fast worker!

Thanks DarklingJane- I was trying to work out how I could help both DDs but see that trying to gift my home so that one has money towards her huge mortgage and the other could live independently will not succeed due to legal and tax implications for all of us in the future.

OP - just let them get on with it and if they end up in a mess so be it as long as your DH agrees that he won't step in and help at a later date.

I involve both DDs and my SiL in discussions as to my future and finances. I'd rather they had my flat and not have to pay taxes for what I've worked so hard to own :-( but there's no way round the problem.

if seems very odd that the BIL and SIL decide how much to give the OP from their house sale for their inheritance from their MIL.

DayLillie and PrimaLass, yes, SIL is certainly quick thinking and has worked her way around MIL fast. I've been married to DH for near enough 20 years and it's never occurred to me to even start discussions as to where MIL's house was going to go. It's really only because MIL started the conversation that we got involved in this at all. TBH if DH didn't call her that day, she wouldn't have bothered telling him anything at all.

And I think I am more hurt by this attitude than anything else. Particularly because MIL's general rudeness and neglect of my family is an ongoing issue. When my dad passed away, she neither called me to express her condolences, nor bothered to pass them through SIL or BIL. And maybe I am expecting too much but I would have liked a simple courtesy of a phone call from her at that time.

Our mother was put under pressure to gift her home to us kids. I took her to a solicitor and was pleased when the solicitor went through a load of horror stories to show why this can be a terrible idea. In explaining that one big practical risk was her kids divorcing their partners, our mother swore blind that such an outcome was impossible. However, the advice did stick and the house has remained in her name.

This month my younger brother is handing over a large amount of money in a divorce settlement. This includes a large amount he's borrowed from the family. Luckily it doesn't include a share in our mother's house.

After your last post I can't understand why you have sent her on holidays for the last few years or paid for house repairs. I also wouldn't be surprised if your BIL & SIL have been claiming the credit for paying for the holidays.

They all sound horrible. Keep as far away as you can. DON'T accept a penny from these awful people. Your MIL is making a very uncomfortable bed for herself - your DH needs to give her some clear advice, once, to do his duty, then leave her to lie in it.

*YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime", I think the whole situation is pretty odd! I am sure if it was up to them, they'd rather not give anything but at the moment they are telling MIL that they will give something to my DH. I assume this is to make MIL feel better about not leaving her other son with nothing. They provided her with an indication of how much that may be but obviously nobody knows what DH will get in the end seeing as MIL is leaving it all to SIL and BIL to decide.

Any amount of money coming from them will come with many strings.

Unless you have a desperate need for money, your DH should refuse the offer of any money now and try to sit down with your MIL and his brother to discuss this. He could say that rather than complicate matters with money being handed over now, it'll be neater for him to receive half the value of the house in the future. He can stress that, naturally, any money put into renovating the house can be taken out first and given to the person who provided it, ie BIL/SIL, and then the net result halved.

I think the main lesson I'd be taking from all this is that you and DH need to distance yourselves, financially and emotionally, from this whole situation

No more paying for house repairs or holidays. Not accepting any money you are offered as part of this 'arrangement' - I personally would be very worried that there are legal implications, though I don't know how the law would see it. But it would leave a nasty taste in the mouth anyway.

And basically just letting them get on with it, and not letting their behaviour upset you any more than you can manage. That can be hard, but it sounds as if MIL is going into this of her own accord, and is capable of seeing the flaws if she wanted to open her eyes. She's an adult, even if SIL is playing on her fears for later life.

Maybe write an email or letter, detailing some of the legal complications. Then leave the subject cold.

Your MIL is behaving atrociously and you are not at all unreasonable to feel aggrieved by this. Inheritance is a hugely emotive subject on MN and you will always get flamed simply for using the word. I started a thread a year or so ago about my annoyance that my PILS had announced they were leaving everything split equally between DH and our children. I really don't want them to do that not - as many suggested in very blunt terms - because I wanted the whole lot for myself, but because my kids are in their early-late teens, PILs are mid-80s and I don't want any of my kids getting their hands on what could be about £100k each any time soon - at least not until they have acquired qualifications and decent jobs. But, to my MIL, they have always been first and foremost HER grandchildren and not MY children and this is her way of continuing to try and exercise control.

But that's by the by. If your MIL won't accept that her relationship with her DIL may not always be good then there's not much you can do. I'm amazed though that your SIL is putting herself in this situation. Your MIL could, for example, develop dementia next year, but remain otherwise physically healthy. If your BIL and SIL have sold their home and invested a chunk of the proceeds in your MIL's house where will that leave them when MIL's house is sold - as it would need to be - to pay for care for the next 10/20/30 years? Your SIL may say she is willing to look after MIL when she is old but what if she can't be left alone for a minute, is doubly incontinent or immobile. What if SIL develops a long-term illness herself? What a choice - put MIL in a home and sell the property to pay for it thereby becoming homeless, or carry on trying to look after her in potentially impossible circumstances. What if your MIL wants to marry again? There are numerous situations which could arise and perhaps you could suggest that it is in EVERYONE's interests to talk things through with a legal adviser?

If MIL dislikes conflict maybe a different approach might work.

DH could say to his DM "We've given you £x towards your holiday for the last x years. This year we'd like to spend that money on independent legal and financial advice for you. Then whatever you choose to do, we'll never grumble about the decision ever again".

Great idea Cookie!

OP, before you decide to move on, please get legal advice if not for MIL (which would still be wise) at least as to how the arrangements might affect you and DH, as someone sensibly suggested up thread. I am a lawyer and have seen how awfully these arrangements can end if not thought through or properly documented. If you cannot afford a lawyer, try a local legal advice centre.

I haven't read every post so sorry
If this is a duplicate.

If this were my family, i would ask for parental home to be valued in its current state and then ask sibling to give me half of that value. Any increase in value would be theirs as they would be improving it. They get a cheap house and it's all done and dusted. In the future any care costs would need to be financially assessed again and split between siblings if necessary. It's their choice to live with parent.

So I would have that half value figure ready for when they try to offer a smaller amount.

I would also seek legal advice.

But this would all be done with the parents approval.

If I couldn't resolve it amicably like this I would just walk away from sibling as there would be rumbling resentments going in for years. I would have to accept my parents choice in this though.

Hope you get it sorted.

bouquetofpencils, if MIL's house was valued, SIL wouldn't be able to give us 50% of its value and still have money to redecorate and renovate MIL's house because MIL's house is worth considerably more than theirs.

I think this is a selfish, selfish abrogation of duty on the part of the MIL. Her children and their families will be suffering the consequences long after she is gone. Although it sounds as though she is the type to not care what happens after she is dead, given she won't be around to witness it.

Very, very sad. The possibilities for terrible injustices, even at the grandkids' level, are emormous.

I think this is a selfish, selfish abrogation of duty on the part of the MIL. Her children and their families will be suffering the consequences long after she is gone.

Is it her duty to leave an equal inheritance to all of her children?
Is it her duty to leave anything at all?
Do people suffer if they are not left an inheritance?

It is HER money and HER house. It is no-one else's business what she does with it. The OP is not entitled to a penny, if MIL chooses to leave something to her children, then they should be grateful for that after she is dead, not expect it, especially while she is still alive.

But Most MIL should decide what she wants her children to have and not leave it to her DIL to sort out. That's the bit that will cause trouble for years to come.

it is, imo, a moral duty to not cause a massive falling out, and a moral duty to treat siblings equitably and fairly

i am always bemused not everyone thinks so

Tigger yes I guessed as much. Another option might be for MIL to sell up, split sale of house equally between her sons and go and live with her new DIL as they would be able to put the money towards a bigger house. I am not saying that is likely to happen but would achieve same objective but in a more fair way.

Do you think your MIL might be lonely and finding the big house too big to manage? This solution proposed by your SIL may be the answer to her prayers in theory and therefore she is closing her eyes and ears to the repercussions.

YABU, it's your husband who should be expressing concerns if he has any. Has your SiL specifically said she expects to be inheriting the house once your MiL passes away? At any rate, it really is no business of yours but something your DH would have to look at if he is unhappy with the situation.

I agree with LittleBearPad. I suspect it's not just that the MIL might leave an unequal inheritance, that's her right, it's that she could be creating a huge mess by either being too cowardly to say "look, I've decided X" or by deluding herself that while she's handing everything over to one son and DIL, she's being fair and magically all will be well.

It's the kind of thing that can cause huge ill-feeling in a family and it's all so unnecessary. Make a decision, be open about it, remove/reduce fall-out.

a moral duty to treat siblings equitably and fairly

Equal and fair are often completely different.
And she should meet her own needs before her childrens.

so does this arrangement sound either
equitable
or
fair?

I also don't think you should accept any money from your Bil&Sil's house. At least not without taking proper advice.