To smoke in the garden at a party?

[fber]

I lit up at a family bbq yesterday. Outside, big garden. The hostess (an inlaw) went a bit off her head and jumped from out of her own arse to right down my throat. Very publicly. There were children there, but they were playing a good way away. I have always done this at her parties, but now she has moved to a different, bigger house (it was a housewarming) it seems the goalposts have moved quite considerably. I was angry and upset at being shouted at like a kid. It's a party, right? A boozy housewarming (her words not mine).

Am I a social pariah?

AIBU?

Sliced, rant away sweetums, but do remember your blood pressure, high BP is bad for you too, not just 2nd hand smoke. As for you answering me, pity I can't make head nor tail of what your point is. You don't write very clearly.

NameChange, also not an issue with me, as I'm sure you have no issue being told you're being irrelevant and silly.

Frankly, you people who really can't debate a point with any degree of intelligence and bit of calm, do you cause more harm than good. So with that in mind, pile in !

Actually Blubirdy I have quite low blood pressure which has been dropping this pregnancy, so a bit of a bunfight is beneficial.

But thank you ever so much for being concerned about my health diddums.

What investment do you have in this debate, I'm a bit curious now as you've said yourself you are a non smoker?

You've been, ahem, enthusiastic to say the least in defending smokers rights and insulting/ insinuating dishonesty in those that disagree with you and say they have been adversely affected by cigarette smoke in some places which are not classed as enclosed spaces.

Of course those of us upset by these situations or who don't agree with you naturally must be unintelligent

Are you always this pleasant?

Yes. But all smoking is revolting not just you.

so going back to the garden scenario - I have a large and very well cared for garden. as long as they did it away from me and anyone else who cares, I would not care.

and as long as they did not drop fag butts. however smokers don't seem to be considerate so I would expect them to smoke on other people who for the sake of politeness would put up with it and drop fag butts in my lovely garden.

so I just have low expectations of smokers. because they don't seem to give a shit about the effects of their choices on others.

Yes as far as the BBQ scenario concerned then if the smoker has moved away from other people/ food then there is no problem really.

Blubirdy - my son suffers from migraine-style headaches, and I have seen what pain they cause him so yes, if the noise my children were making in the garden was causing that sort of pain to my neighbour, I would make them be quiet. Sorry if that is not what you wanted me to say.

What investment do you have in this debate, I'm a bit curious now as you've said yourself you are a non smoker?

Investment ? huh ? LOL, You sound like my F.A.

I am responding because I don't like to see any minority group of people doing any legal thing, being vilified in the way I see smokers being vilified on this thread. Plus the lack of logic from the "I get hives if I see someone smoking at the other end of the street" is just plain funny.

It might surprise you that many of the more vociferous posters with a similar stance to myself are either non-smokers or ex-smokers.

Nah it wouldn't surprise me, I'm an ex smoker myself.

I think the reason smoking addicts are perhaps picked on is because their habit can affect other people IF they are inconsiderate.

Which some, though thankfully not most, of them are.

I can't speak for anyone else but personally the briefest whiff of smoke as someone passes by or in a very open space where you can move away doesn't bother me.

It's only in the situations I mentioned before that it affects me i.e. Smokers clogging up entrances where you have no choice but to run the gauntlet, or outside where you can't really move away, like in a queue.

I'm afraid I haven't read all 17 pages here (but the last few seem to be tedious petty interpersonal squabbles anyway ), and it may have come up already, but I wouldn't want children even SEEING smoking. At the risk of sounding like an old fuddy duddy it's a bad example, especially from a family member. If it's OK for aunty fber to do it, why not them?
The smell of smoke is pretty pervasive too, and very noticeable to non smokers, even outside; I was bothered by my neighbours cigar out in the garden earlier and our houses are not that close together.
I think your SIL was unreasonable to shout at you as she did, especially as she seems to have changed the goalposts without warning, but I wouldn't want smoking at a BBQ in my garden, with children and food around, whether the smoker had asked politely or not.

OhILove - I have had some bad experiences with smokers - my mum being the main one - she smoked around me and my sister and refused to stop smoking in the car, even though it was making me carsick and headache-y. She lit up in my bedroom in the Nurses' Home and my Uni hall of residence without asking too - clearly not giving a shit about the smell it left in my room, where I had to sleep.

Where I used to live, my neighbour didn't let her son and his friends smoke in the house, so they used to stand outside the back door and flick their fag buts over my fence - I tried telling them to stop, and it did stop for a while, but they obviously got bored of disposing of their fag buts and decided again that my garden was the most suitable ash tray. I didn't bother asking them again - I just collected the buts up and dumped them back over the fence. If the boys got in trouble with my neighbour, I gave exactly as much of a shit about that as they had given about flicking their mess into my garden.

However, that is just two examples, and whilst I am sure there are others, I don't think they mean that all smokers are selfish and thoughtless - I suspect my mum would be selfish and thoughtless, and careless of me and my needs if she were a life-long non-smoker, and many teenagers are thoughtless and careless at times. If you are a selfish person, you will be selfish whether you smoke or not.

my son suffers from migraine-style headaches, and I have seen what pain they cause him so yes, if the noise my children were making in the garden was causing that sort of pain to my neighbour, I would make them be quiet. Sorry if that is not what you wanted me to say.

No, on the contrary, that’s exactly what I wanted to hear. At least you’re prepared to practice what you preach. In as far as, if you want other people to accommodate your extreme health reactions regards smoking outdoors, you’re also prepared to accommodate people with extreme sensory issues who may be affected by kiddy noise. If I had a hat on, I would take it off to you! In my experience though you would be one of the very few parents who would be so accommodating. Too many parents can’t even turn the volume down a bit on their children, or get them to act semi-normal, and they are generally not the type to say “oh you have regular headaches/sensory issues, then yes I will keep the kids indoors, go sit at another table”. I think if you hold yourself to such high standards, then yes I can understand you expecting to be/hoping to be treated that way by others. I still think most people would be told to taking a fucking hike if they were asked by neighbours to keep their kids indoors, or asked by people in Costa to sit elsewhere. Good for you for being so thoughtful!

I have such a hankering now to host a smoking friendly barbecue.

It's only in the situations I mentioned before that it affects me i.e. Smokers clogging up entrances where you have no choice but to run the gauntlet, or outside where you can't really move away, like in a queue

Our local hospital was "forced" to ban smoking at the entrance, and move it to (? not sure exactly, come out the main door, turn right and walk about 40 meters or so) that was after someone started a facebook campaign and got a few hundred people on board. I don't think it should be too hard to get smoking restrictions brought in in your local hospital either. Mind you, our local paper still has complaints from the vocal anti-smokers even though they have moved it well away from the entrance. Some people say they have to walk past the smoking area getting from the main carpark to the main entrance. IMO it's very easy to give the smoking area a wide berth.

I have had some bad experiences with smokers - my mum being the main one - she smoked around me and my sister and refused to stop smoking in the car, even though it was making me carsick and headache-y. She lit up in my bedroom in the Nurses' Home and my Uni hall of residence without asking too - clearly not giving a shit about the smell it left in my room, where I had to sleep

As a kid traveling in your mums car I know there was zero you could do about that, plus depending on your age, things were very different decades ago. “Childrens rights” were fairly non existant.

But uni, nursing training? Had my mother (or anyone for that matter) disobeyed my wishes as an adult, in MY space, their feet wouldn’t have touched the ground on their way out, and the door wouldn’t have hit their arse either.

Indeed your mother is just an inconsiderate, selfish person who happens to smoke.

I was still afraid of my mum then - shaming though that is to admit. Thankfully I do now have a bit more gumption.

as long as they did not drop fag butts. however smokers don't seem to be considerate so I would expect them to smoke on other people who for the sake of politeness would put up with it and drop fag butts in my lovely garden. so I just have low expectations of smokers. because they don't seem to give a shit about the effects of their choices on others

Do you just THINK they will drop fag butts in your garden, or have they actually DONE that? I have two ashtrays in my back garden and don't recall ever having had to clean up dropped fag ends. Do you provide something/anything for them to put their fag butts in?

The only "cleaning up" I have to do after my smoking friends leave is to turn their ashtrays upside down so rain water doesn't collect in them.

Difficult as this seems to be for some to understand, for many people the smell of cigarette smoke is much more unpleasant than other smells. I dislike the smell of woodsmoke and barbecue smoke, but the smell of cigarette smoke makes me nauseous. Perhaps it's linked to the carsickness I suffered as a child when travelling with a smoking parent (who would rather have a vomiting child than forgo her in-car smoking)- I believe research suggests a strong link between smell and memory. In fact the recollection of desperately trying not to vomit while heavily pregnant on a hot summer day, when a kind colleague insisted on giving me a lift in her smoke- drenched car,is making my stomach turn now. When others are smoking outside-e.g. at a bus stop- then yes, many people do try to move as far away as they can.

And to be honest, I don't want to provide ashtrays and have to retch while I empty them, or have stinking butts festering in my bin/ recycling bins (and they do stink, despite what smokers would like to believe). I don't care if this is considered inhospitable.

So cars generate exhaust fumes, which smell bad and cause pollution. I doubt that many people are backing their cars into other people's gardens and running the engine with the exhaust pipe under the noses of partygoers. Some people object to perfume/ deodorant- again, I've never encountered anyone standing next to someone at barbecue and spraying perfume under their nose as they try to eat their sausages.

blu - you seem to think it not possible that my experiences are different than yours.

surely you can see that this makes no sense?

I doubt that many people are backing their cars into other people's gardens and running the engine with the exhaust pipe under the noses of partygoers

I have never had a guest blow their smoke under my nose, in my garden or anywhere else for that matter, they always go further away to smoke. It's not like at junctions or traffic lights, where if I am stood waiting to cross I have no option but to breath in car fumes.

I've never encountered anyone standing next to someone at barbecue and spraying perfume under their nose as they try to eat their sausages

Likewise, I have never encountered anyone standing next to me at a bbq blowing their smoke under my nose as I ear my sausages.

I am beginning to wonder if smoking is the issue with you people or you just have THE most inconsiderate and selfish friends.

Fwiw. I'm one of those with an extreme, uncontrollable reaction (luckily temporary) to fag smoke and a couple of other smells.

Recently added instant coffee, OH's deodorant, and ribena to that list.

I would not allow smoking in my back garden or house. In that scenario it's either I leave, or the smoker leaves. Which I know I've already said.
However, what seems to have been assumed about people like me with strong anti smoke reactions and feelings - is that I would try and impress my will on other people.

It's not true. If sitting outside at a pub or restaurant, I recognise completely that people will probably smoke, and therefore I move or don't sit there. If someone is smoking in front of me on the pavement, I would move (crossover), or otherwise take myself away from it etc. If invited somewhere I know there will be a lot of smoke, I will either politely decline, or take steps to remove myself from the smoking person. Because it's not my home.

But when it is - that's the one place I don't think I should feel bad about it.

I will say that I despise having to enter asda, or my hospital, etc etc through a fug of smoke, but there is no other choice. I wish they would bring back smoking shelters at an appropriate distance and enforce them.

This was especially awful when leaving hospital after a stillbirth and walking through a group of pregnant women smoking, or taking a premature baby born with breathing difficulties into the hospital through similar clouds. Things like this can colour how one feels about smokers as a group, though I do my best not to let it.

blu - of course another possibly is we have just has different experiences. which is highly likely.

surely you can see that this makes no sense?

the only thing I can see is you are trying to make a point, but losing perspective while doing so, and you're not really making any clear points. No one is arguing that smoking in confined places is bad, this post is about smoking outdoors. Then you go on about smokers littering your garden with cig ends, and as you weren't at all clear in your post, I asked you to clarify if that was just something you expected would happen or something that did actually happen. Now you come back with your latest post to me, which again, makes little if any sense. But hey, if makes you happy, and the limit of your ability to discuss a subject only goes this far, then yes, I can understand that different people have different experiences. Happy now?

OI! or more politely, ahem!

I am Blu!

And not connected top Blubirdy!

yes it did happen. as did smoking in the house when agreed not to etc. etc. etc

yes it did happen. as did smoking in the house when agreed not to etc. etc. etc

then I think you suffer from the same thing as SDT. With her it was a selfish, inconsiderate mother. You have selfish, inconsiderate friends. Even if they stop smoking, they will still be selfish and inconsiderate with no respect at all for your boundaries. I would rather have no friends than "friends" who had no respect for me.

My mother in law stopped smoking before I met her, but I have heard she was a smoker who gave short shrift to no-smoking rules inside other peoples homes and just carried on smoking regardless. I knew because of that I would have loads of other boundary issues with her, and she sure as hell didn't disappoint, lol. Some people are just arrogant selfish arses who delight in disrespecting the boundaries of others. It's their personality, character.