About gay vicars.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Now I admit I'm not religious so I don't really get the argument of breaking church law, etc.

But I think its crazy that in this day and age a vicar can be refused a licence to practice by the local bishop because he's gay.

I thought Christians were meant to be tolerant, compassionate, etc.

Its even more crazy when he wouldn't be working directly for the diocese but for the local hospital.

bbc news story

I am very glad that you are an ongoing truth-seeker.

Carry on seeking, and you will find.
May God bless you.

So really, the police should stop finding and locking paedophiles away if their rapes prevent someone going to hell at a later date. Does god get upset when another paedophile is locked up because it means more people are off to hell? Would he hold me responsible for a person going to hell if my actions had prevented someone being raped which meant that they didn't get saved? Wouldn't that mean I was responsible for them going to hell?

Wouldn't it be better if we now kill all babies at birth so that they all go to heaven, wouldn't that make us some big saviour. Yes it would seem upsetting but ultimately the good would out weigh the negative. (I am seriously joking and actually feel a little bit sick and slightly worried about where your logic could take you setting?)

Well, the harder I seek truth, the further I seem to leave religion behind.

So I'm probably in for a burning rather than a blessing, if you are right settingseeking

But I can't compromise my own morals/conscience, even if you were.

I havent compromised my own morals/conscience as far as I know InAnotherLife.

Well, the harder I seek truth, the further I seem to leave religion behind.
The bible says seek and ye shall find.
So carry on seeking, no matter how far you think you are leaving religion behind. You are not, no matter what it feels like.

Not sure where you are getting your points from headinhands.
God believes in justice. In Heaven, and definitely on earth as well.

Wouldn't it be better if we now kill all babies at birth so that they all go to heaven, wouldn't that make us some big saviour

I get where you are coming from with that.
But that is not how God's earth rules work.

Apologies, it may have come across wrong, I'm not saying you're compromising your own morals settingsitting, but to follow yours would compromise mine.

Ah, I see.

I think that it depends where and from whom we get our morals from in the first place. My mum is a christian, my dad was not as I was growing up.
But for me, it was quite easy to see who was acting correctly, and who was not. No contest really.

I dont know how a person's conscience works if someone has not grown up in a christian household at all.
[I am pretty sure headinhands will tell me, just fine! But thinking about it, I think she grew up in a christian household?]

And no way should you follow me. I would like you though to follow God obviously.

the verses in Genesis that say that Satan came and caused animals to eat each other instead of just grass.

That's the story they tell children and it works in cartoons too where you just redraw the bits you want, but when you go to school and learn just how complex everything is you soon realise that you can't just flip a switch to make one into the other.

Everything relies on everything else. Biologically, chemically and even behaviourally. If you are saying that Satan created a whole new universe - perhaps with different laws of physics and chemistry - that is fine, but then I'd have to ask you when you abandoned monotheism since that would make him a god too, by the Christian definition.

You may think that god could just 'wish' the sky green, but ask someone with a good education why the sky is blue and they will explain that it's to do with the wavelengths of light scattered by the air.

My education was nothing special so I can only understand it vaguely, but while you could throw up clouds of dust and pollution and change the appearance for a time, to change the fundamental color you'd have to change the nature of the air or the frequency of the light. You'd probably find the result would be unsuitable for humans and you'd have to start again from scratch.

It's all like that, and pretty wonderful it is too.

God, Satan, angels all have a bit more power than we do.

"God believes in justice"

My idea of justice would never involve a god inviting a rapist into paradise because that rapist 'found god' at some point in his life all while the woman he had raped and murdered burnt in a lake of fire for eternity for not believing in that god. People should pay their dues and they should be appropriate to the crime. Other people should not be able to take the rap for them, that's not just. And the crown prosecution service takes the same poor view.

Do you forgive people headinhands?

Absolutely but then it's people who have let me,down. I can't forgive people for stuff they have done to other people. That would be immoral. Forgiving people is a private and personal matter. If someone wronged me in a way that was criminal such as theft or assault then you would have to start thinking about your duty to protect other people. If I say 'I won't go to the police about that road rage incident as I have forgiven them' then I'm putting others at risk. Where does the CPS come in to it if you think it's acceptable for people to be forgiven and not pay for their crime. It's also possible and quite usual for a person to make up for a wrong and be forgiven. They are not exclusive.

I am as much as the next person for them paying for a crime. But that doesnt mean that I dont forgive them.
The two are almost totally two seperate things.

Yeah me too. But it's definitely not your job to forgive someone for something they did to someone else. That's immoral. But you see even your god isn't that just. He will forgive people for stuff they did to you and let them off child rape and all sorts. Potentially he will watch someone rape a child and then forgive them later when they 'find god'. In my eyes he's as bad as the rapist for just sitting and watching.

I mustnt judge bad behaviour, so I have to forgive them to be able to do that.
[As I said before, that doesnt normally mean that they shouldnt pay for their crime].

What you describe though headinhands is the crux of why Jesus dies on the cross. As forgiveness for sin. [People get forgiven if they genuinely mean it]

But they should be forgiven by the person they hurt. And no one should take the rap for someone else's crime. That's immoral.

Those two fundamental elements of morality are missing from the Christian model.

I think I am right in saying that morality is subjective rather than objective[if I remember my schoolday words correctly]. I looked up the definition of morality fairly recently, and the descriptions were all over the place.

Are you saying that Jesus shouldnt have taken the rap?

[not sure that I am properly understanding your last two posts. Sorry]

No one should pay for a crime other than the person who did it. The law agrees with me. That said punishments should fit the crime. The idea of Jesus dying for my sins is objectionable because I've not done something to deserve a lake of fire and I should be responsible for my wrongdoing.

Jesus dying for your sins is like smoking, it solves a problem it made up all by itself. And another thing, if Jesus paid for your sin he should still be in hell shouldn't he? You can't serve a life sentence in 3 days let alone get someone else to do it for you.

Sometimes I find your posts quite funny headinhands.

On a more serious note.
I am not sure there is a person alive who thinks that the law gets everything right.
And who makes laws? Fallible people.

btw. You are responsible for your wrongdoing.

God, Satan, angels all have a bit more power than we do.

You are funny.

Can god make 2+2=3?

Can you? if not can you ask someone with bigger muscles to try and then try using heavy machinery.

If you failed, do you understand why you failed? and why power is irrelevant in some contexts.

For God all things are possible.

How would you know, you've never seen him do anything.