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Original poster

About gay vicars.

396 replies

VivaLeBeaver · 12/07/2014 23:34

Now I admit I'm not religious so I don't really get the argument of breaking church law, etc.

But I think its crazy that in this day and age a vicar can be refused a licence to practice by the local bishop because he's gay.

I thought Christians were meant to be tolerant, compassionate, etc.

Its even more crazy when he wouldn't be working directly for the diocese but for the local hospital.

bbc news story

OP posts:
settingsitting · 19/07/2014 18:47

BackOnlyBriefly. You are probably very aware of the verses in Genesis that say that Satan came and caused animals to eat each other instead of just grass. And yes, the snakes to bite and the bees to sting. He messed the world up.

It would have been a great world without sin and horrid stuff.

TheSpottedZebra · 19/07/2014 18:49

But Setting - there would not be enough grass for all, so surely the animals would suffer a horrid death, then we'd all die too Sad

InAnotherLife · 19/07/2014 19:10

He may well be malevolent. He is allowed to be.
You see, I realised eventually that He can be whatever He wants to be.
It doesnt matter what label is put on Him.
He is the one with the power.
What are you going to do about it?
Personally I succombed, backtracked, gave in, submitted, trusted.

I can't describe how much the above comments made my blood run cold.
To back down in the face of (admittedly undefeatable, if it were real) power, regardless of its morality, and more... to allow yourself to be 'assimilated' by it, malevolent or not, because "what are you going to do about it?".

I just can't understand it, and I would happily opt out of a universe via death if that were the only alternative. Maybe boiling in hellfire would 'sort me out', but it would take torture, and a breaking of who I am to obtain my cooperation for such an entity, and it would very much be against my 'free will'.

settingsitting · 19/07/2014 19:14

There are people who will happily take torture rather than bow down.

InAnotherLife · 19/07/2014 19:16

To a malevolent entity? Absolutely.

livelablove · 19/07/2014 20:47

I think it is very unusual for a Christian to believe God is, or could be, malevolent. Christians believe that God is good and that if he allows suffering it has a purpose that will be good in the long run. If someone is punished again it is for a good and just reason.
Although some people have questioned if some if the things in the Bible that we might not feel are good mean God is not good and loving, hardly any christians would agree with that and it is not a christian understanding of the scriptures.

settingsitting · 19/07/2014 20:51

I agree with what you have written livelablove, so does that mean that I dont think that he is malevolent?

headinhands · 19/07/2014 21:02

“If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That's the difference between me and your God.”. Tracie Harris.

settingsitting · 19/07/2014 21:19

But stopping people from going to hell is bigger.

InAnotherLife · 19/07/2014 21:40

An omnipotent, all-powerful entity would be able to stop people going to hell and stop innocents being tortured by other people if it wanted to.

headinhands · 19/07/2014 21:57

So you wouldn't stop a child rapist if you could? SmileGrinWinkShockHmmConfusedSmileGrinWinkShockHmmConfused

settingsitting · 20/07/2014 09:33

But that comes back to God giving people free will InAnotherLife.

settingsitting · 20/07/2014 09:35

I would headinhands.
But I am not God.
God has given people free will.

InAnotherLife · 20/07/2014 10:14

'Do as I say or be tortured forever' is not giving people free will, or anything resembling it.

settingsitting · 20/07/2014 10:47

Yes it is. That is the choice.

InAnotherLife · 20/07/2014 11:12

Then it would be just as easy for God to say to someone about to attack a child, that they would be struck down dead if they did.

They would still have the 'choice'.

settingsitting · 20/07/2014 11:17

I dont understand your last post.

InAnotherLife · 20/07/2014 11:20

And no sorry, it is no choice at all, I'm just pointing out that the logic should work both ways if it was.

No one operating under threat of death/torture to obey someone else can be said to be acting of their own 'free will'.

InAnotherLife · 20/07/2014 11:21

Prevent an attack by immediately punishing/destroying the attacker = free will taken away

Threaten to do the same thing via hellfire in 20, 30, 40 years time if not obeyed = free will not taken away

It doesn't make any sense at all.

settingsitting · 20/07/2014 11:23

We are the clay, and God is the potter, so I sort of get what you are saying. I agree that our choices are either obey, or disobey and cop the consequences.

settingsitting · 20/07/2014 11:24

I dont think that the term "free will" is in the bible. I think that it is a man made term.

InAnotherLife · 20/07/2014 11:28

God already does constrain all of our 'free will' by giving us the option of obedience or hellfire.

So the idea that stopping an attacker from interfering with a child would ruin his 'free will' doesn't make any sense at all.

The choice would be: 'Attempt to touch that child and I will strike you down'.

settingsitting · 20/07/2014 11:34

1st sentence. I agree with.
2nd sentence. I dont agree with.
3rd sentence. If God were to strike down everyone who sinned, there would not be anyone left. Which rather defeats the point.

InAnotherLife · 20/07/2014 11:41

So God could do away with sin and evil, but prefers for it to exist.

Although, actually, settingsitting honestly, I love a good discussion and am an ongoing truth-seeker myself, but I'm not really sure of any purpose to debating this particular issue, as you've already told me the outcome even if you agreed with every point I made.

I believe that if God existed the way biblical religions say he does, then he would have to be malevolent, and I could not morally follow him.

You've already basically said that even if he was malevolent, it wouldn't make any difference and you would still follow him.

So there's not much reason to argue that specific point, our paths go in separate directions regardless.

settingsitting · 20/07/2014 12:02

So God could do away with sin and evil, but prefers for it to exist.

No way does He prefer for it to exist.
He is the exact opposite of this.