About gay vicars.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Now I admit I'm not religious so I don't really get the argument of breaking church law, etc.

But I think its crazy that in this day and age a vicar can be refused a licence to practice by the local bishop because he's gay.

I thought Christians were meant to be tolerant, compassionate, etc.

Its even more crazy when he wouldn't be working directly for the diocese but for the local hospital.

bbc news story

What if God is able to prevent evil but chooses not to because people have the right to be evil if they want to?

I get that absolutely, in fact when I wanted to believe that was essentially my attempt at justification.

But it still doesn't deal with the issue of non man-made evil. Why did he allow the tsunami, for instance? Why does he allow a baby to be born only to undergo weeks of dreadful suffering before dying?

The Satan excuse really doesn't work. If God is omnipotent he could easily reverse or prevent anything that Satan does.

Personally I dont have any doubt that God uses the weather as punishment.
Noah's flood.

God intervenes when He wants to. Or when He is asked to.

The Satan excuse really doesn't work. If God is omnipotent he could easily reverse or prevent anything that Satan does.
But not anything that we do. A lot of evil is attributed to Satan that isn't down to him at all just us humans messing it up all by ourselves. Anyway Satan doesn't act directly but by influencing people.

Bardette, your example about smoking suggests that you don't know about viruses and bacteria. It's not all self inflicted. Certainly primitive man had no way to make viruses. They were already there.

If you want to say god created the world you're going to have to face that he made diseases that would cause even children to suffer horribly and die - because he wanted to.

You say Satan doesn't act directly but by influencing people. so you can't blame him for making them like sittingsitting does so it must have been god.

settingsitting you said "Of course the OT is from God! He wouldnt create the universe and then get his own book wrong!"*

You do know there are loads of Christians on MN and even on this thread that disagree. is god telling them wrong or are they perhaps demons in disguise?

They may say that they dont believe, but theyare still ok about being prayed for.

Given that's you've just admitted that you believe in a malevolent god why would you think it was ok to offer to pray for people to him? isn't that like pointing someone out to your serial killer friend.

Personally I dont have any doubt that God uses the weather as punishment.

But how can you possibly have even a modicum of respect for a being who sends a tsunami as punishment and thereby kills innocent children?

God intervenes when He wants to.

Right, so one day he can't be arsed to intervene and as a result a child is born with a horrific disability that leaves him in agony for a year before he dies.

And people actually worship this monster?

It's blatant discrimination against a legally protected characteristic. I think it's sickening that religion is allowed to flout UK law as it sees fit. I understand the human rights argument etc. but a religion performing animal sacrifices or enciting racial hatred etc. would not be permitted and UK law would overrule so why is sexism and homophobia condoned so much?

I dont think that there are demons in disguise on this thread. I dont think that the christians on this thread have gone that far wrong for God to be telling them wrong things.

Icimoi. I think that your points have already been covered on this thread.

ProtegeMoi. I think that your point has already been covered on here as well.

I dont think that there are demons in disguise on this thread. I dont think that the christians on this thread have gone that far wrong for God to be telling them wrong things.

So how do you explain that many Christians here say that the bible is:

Not god's word, but simply inspired by him.

Just the best that primitive people could do in understanding god.

Metaphor and history. You are not supposed to take it literally, but let it bring you to a feeling of closeness to god

and so on.

Icimoi. I think that your points have already been covered on this thread.

Where? Apart from people saying words to the effect of "I don't know, it's all complicated"?

settingsitting are you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church?

•god uses the weather as punishment"

With wind speeds averaging at 700mph god must be REALLY angry with whatever's living on Neptune.

All suffering ultimately is the result of sin, human sin and angelic sin. Sin is anything that isn't from love. God's world was designed to run on love, when we add selfishness, greed and hate, the whole of creation goes wrong.
There is only one way to get rid of suffering and that is to get rid of those who sin. However because God is love, because He loves those of us who sometimes behave hatefully, He doesn't want to destroy us, but rather to provide us a way to be forgiven and cleansed from our selfishness.
So God (the son) volunteered to be the sacrifice to pay the price for our sin. He came as a man and suffered and died so that we can be free from sin and it's effects, if we are willing to turn away from hate and embrace love and accept the sacrifice that Jesus has made for us.
God is not slow to deal with suffering and it's causes, it's just that he is patient because he is not willing that anyone should be lost. God promises that the day will come when he will wipe the tears from every eye of those who have turned to him and rejected hate (sin).

those who have turned to him

And those who just happened to be born in the wrong country with the wrong god? Or those who, having used the reasoning skills you claim god gave them, realised there was no evidence for any of the gods humans claim to be real. So they're off to the lake of fire. Meanwhile those who were Christian get whisked off to paradise even if they spent a lifetime raping before finding your god (or after!). See, even to my sinful fallen mind that scenario is morally repugnant as would be the god using such a system.

because He loves those of us who sometimes behave hatefully, He doesn't want to destroy us

You mean like he did with the flood?

And like he did to the firstborn of Egypt, the Canaanites and the other victims of his genocidal urges?

Not to mention the individual men, women and children he killed when he was in the mood.

Sometimes you hear about people falling in love with famous serial killers they have never met. This is hardly different.

Oh and the world runs on natural laws. Gravity makes things fall even if you close your eyes and wish really hard. Planting crops without replacing the nutrients makes them fail regardless of how you pray. Viruses propagate using methods that are mostly understood and predictable. Cars work because of the mechanics of the internal combustion engine and so on. God doesn't breath on the engines to make them go any more than he breathes on the crops.

happyhev1 is saying what I said further upthread, but better than me.

I dont think that I have heard of Westboro Baptist Church

God does punish people, that is true.

God waters crops

god waters crops

You're a poe! You HAVE to be.

Sorry I dont even know what a poe is

All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful,
The Lord God made them all.

Each little flower that opens,
Each little bird that sings,
He made their glowing colours,
He made their tiny wings.

The purple-headed mountain
The river running by,
The sunset, and the morning,
That brightens up the sky;

The cold wind in the winter,
The pleasant summer sun,
The ripe fruits in the garden,
He made them every one.

But "no!" say the other posters. "Of course he didn't make viruses, bacteria. Nor Snakes that bite or Bees that sting. Not Lions or Tigers or Bears..."

Oh my!