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AIBU?

About gay vicars.

396 replies

VivaLeBeaver · 12/07/2014 23:34

Now I admit I'm not religious so I don't really get the argument of breaking church law, etc.

But I think its crazy that in this day and age a vicar can be refused a licence to practice by the local bishop because he's gay.

I thought Christians were meant to be tolerant, compassionate, etc.

Its even more crazy when he wouldn't be working directly for the diocese but for the local hospital.

bbc news story

OP posts:
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Icimoi · 22/07/2014 22:21

mummineo, because, if you believe in God, you have to believe that God made and loves gay people?

More to the point, why shouldn't they let gay people become vicars? After all, they've been doing it for centuries.

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settingsitting · 22/07/2014 22:34

What sort of evidence are you after headinhands.

Icimoi, I have not been praying for you.

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headinhands · 23/07/2014 03:15

Ooh I don't know, the same sort of evidence you'd need for any other massive claim. If your friend said setting, you're not going to believe what I can do, I can fly, I can actually fly!!! At what point do you believe them?

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mumminio · 23/07/2014 07:13

icimoi are you familiar with Christianity?

Jesus loves all people, including those who do things which are not within his teachings. It doesn't mean those people should be appointed as leaders.

Using your logic, Jesus loves child molesters and murderers, so they should also be eligible as vicars. I don't think anyone would back that one though.

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Icimoi · 23/07/2014 07:18

mumminio, there is an obvious reason why a murderer cannot be a vicar. There is no reason, obvious or otherwise, why a gay person cannot be a vicar. I note you haven't responded to the invitation to explain your reasoning.

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settingsitting · 23/07/2014 08:53

That sort of evidence does not exist headinhands. We have been at this point before on mumsnet.
[I could probably point you to some previous threads about it if you need me to]

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settingsitting · 23/07/2014 08:53

Icimoi.

Do you think that God would approve?

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settingsitting · 23/07/2014 08:55

When you become a christian, there is always God involved. In everything you do. In every decision you make. In your marriage. In your social life. Everywhere. In your work etc etc.
And most certainly at church!!

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Icimoi · 23/07/2014 10:13

Settingsitting, as I don't believe in God, your question is irrelevant. Back in the days when I did believe, I rationalised it so far as I could on the basis that he would be a rational, fair and tolerant being. I therefore considered that he would thoroughly approve of gay people being vicars.

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Icimoi · 23/07/2014 10:16

Using your logic, Jesus loves child molesters and murderers, so they should also be eligible as vicars. I don't think anyone would back that one though.

I left this alone previously, because I was interested to seen whether mumminio would respond to my question why gay people shouldn't be vicars. However, as she hasn't, I'll raise it now.

Is it just me, or is that comparison of gay people to child molesters and murderers quite staggeringly offensive?

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MorphineDreams · 23/07/2014 11:18

Icimoi it's an absolutely disgusting statement.

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headinhands · 23/07/2014 19:33

People, including those who do things which are not within his teachings.

Would you give me the verse please?

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headinhands · 23/07/2014 19:39

Reminds me of the time my ex tried to take me to court about custody after I'd left him and moved in with my gay sister. Apparently, because she was a practising lesbian it wasn't an appropriate environment for a child to be in. Upon hearing my ex's reservations she said 'don't worry, I'm not practicing, I've got my certificates now! ':)

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headinhands · 24/07/2014 08:50

that sort of evidence does not exist

If you actually believed the bible you should expect that evidence to fully exist because Jesus made claims about giving his followers the ability to do all sorts of amazing things, even raising people from the dead. Why aren't their numerous scientifically verified instances of people who are certified dead coming back to life after being prayed for? Why don't the NHS have Christians praying in the resus area of every A&E? Why do we even need an NHS, Jesus said Christians would heal the sick. The government could save a fortune and get the churches to treat the public.

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Inabagdown · 25/07/2014 20:47

I think that christians dont need evidence as we now have the Holy Spirit.

And God decided that having evidence didnt work for non christians, they still didnt believe.

Something like that [am ss]

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Inabagdown · 25/07/2014 20:49

I dont think that mumminio meant that as it sounds. But I cant really speak for another poster.

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headinhands · 26/07/2014 08:48

I don't care wether it was Jesus or Justin Bieber who thinks it, equating someone who is gay with a paedophile is repugnant. And besides, I'm not sure jesus even said anything about gay issues?

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Toadinthehole · 27/07/2014 03:07

Coming a bit late to this thread. Nevertheless, there are two points I want to make, being someone raised CofE and still Anglican (although abroad now).

  1. Yes, the priest broke the rules. So what. Right now, ordained CofE clergy who are gay are being put into a false position. If the bishops of the Church refuse to deal with the issue properly, acts of civil disobedience like this are completly appropriate in my opinion.


  1. Christianity is about following Christ. The clue is in the name. It is not Biblianity. CofE doctrine has never been based solely on the Bible. Since Elizabethan times it has been based on three sources: Scripture, reason and tradition. The Bible is very important, but what it says is not to be accepted uncritically. Nor is it appropriate to leave one's rationality at the door. It is quite appropriate to take into account what science tells us. I like the way it was put in something I read this morning:


"..it has been drawn to the realisation of some of us that for centuries most Christians have been critical of a group of people about whom Jesus made no criticism at all. They are the people whom science now assures us were born the way they are".

So it isn't against principle for the CofE to change its mind and accept same-sex relationships fully, as I trust it will eventually do. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the CofE (and Anglican churches generally) are seen as the Lib Dems of churches: unprincipled and trying to be all things to all people. Well, I will say two things to that.

  1. A church's first duty is to be there for people, not just to insist they all believe the same stuff.


  1. Those who base their objections on the Bible are putting themselves in even more of a false position than gay CofE clergy, for reasons given above. After all, I don't observe any of them saying that gays should be put to the sword. They should be honest with themselves and - like the Anglicans - be explicit in that they don't accept every bit of the Bible. Such people should also reflect on the fact that it was the Church who decided what books to include in the Bible, and they did so having worked out what to believe. Plenty of books were left out. Doctrine came first, then the Bible.


  1. Conservatives from other (ie, Roman Catholic) backgrounds have the same problem. Because they believe Church teaching can never be in error, they are unable to admit they got this one wrong, even if they are so inclined. They should reflect on the fact that their churches teach very different stuff to 500 years ago. Their churches have just never admitted to being wrong about any of it. Why not be honest?


As for my own reasons for being supportive of the Church blessing same-sex marriages, it's simple. I have known plenty of gay Christians who reflect Christ to me. Clearly their sexual orientation - and relationships - don't get in the way of this.

Also it puts me in the same camp as Desmond Tutu, who fought prejudice all his life and hence knows it when he sees it.
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JaneJane63 · 09/12/2014 12:46

I am a Christian and i have mixed views about gay vicars. Firstly I believe all sin is sin and no sin is bigger than another sin in the eyes of God , I believe if a person truly accepts Jesus as their saviour then they are saved eternally no matter what sin they commit, does this give believers a licence to sin ? No not at all we don't need a licence to sin as humans we do that quite naturally , what it does give the believer is assurance that they are loved unconditionally by their heavenly Father and just knowing this is what brings the peace Jesus promised .

Gay vicars , well personally i don't think they should be in the position of vicar because a leader should lead by example and the bible is very clear that the act of homosexuality is an abomination to God , God still loves everyone even when they sin but i don't personally think a gay can set a good example to a congregation by living in sin and committing sin . It is complicated because for none believers they don't understand the word of God , i am no expert don't get me wrong but just my understanding of the bible i do not think gay vicars are right .

As for women wearing a head covering in church , i think that was a culture thing .

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PedlarsSpanner · 09/12/2014 13:55

Thank you JaneJane63 for going to the effort of registering an account to share your bon mots on this long dead thread

You'll forgive me for mentally filing you under "Berserker, frothing" I am sure

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MrsMaker83 · 09/12/2014 13:57

It baffles me how they get away with such discrimination and homophobia. Absolute disgrace.

In my work place my employers would be sued if they refused people anything based on their sexual orientation.

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TiggyD · 09/12/2014 16:28

I don't care wether it was Jesus or Justin Bieber who thinks it,... - Is there some kind of mnemonic for remembering which one is which?

I've always thought being a vicar is kind of a gay/camp thing anyway. The dressing up, the performance, listening to women without trying to get a shag out of it, the singing songs/choirs, etc.

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TiggyD · 09/12/2014 16:33

JaneJane63 - Firstly I believe all sin is sin and no sin is bigger than another sin in the eyes of God - A fit person parking in a disabled space is as naughty as genocide? Hmmm. Interesting.

...God , i am... - You forgot to capitalise the 'I', therefore you are as big a sinner as Hitler. Thread ends.

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TooHasty · 09/12/2014 16:45

I don't think the church expects everyone, even vicars, to lead sinfree lives.That is kind of the whole point of christianity.

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JaneJane63 · 09/12/2014 17:19

I haven't registered just to reply to this thread . In fact i have been a member quite a while, also the reason i found this thread was because of a google search as i was reading the new story line in coronation street with Sean and the vicar who is gay and this came up in the google search .

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