AIBU to think they should have let DD keep the sodding toy?

[captainbarnaclesismyboyfriend]

DD is 4. I have been separated from her arrogant manchild father for 2 years. Lots of backstory: his family is incredibly dysfunctional, very toxic mother who smothers her adult children, my ex as a result was extremely difficult to live with, behaviour bordering on EA. He dips in and out of DD's life, leaving havoc in his wake. I'm not perfect but I do think I have tried my absolute best to facilitate contact with ex and his family, often to the detriment of my own plans/happiness.

Ex lives with his parents and his 2 adult siblings. About 4-5 months ago, DD came back from the house with a small cuddly cat toy. She said ex had given it to her. I was pleased at this: he never buys her anything, in fact I used to have to buy DD birthday/Christmas presents 'from him' until I got a grip. I still have to send packed lunches to his house when she visits

DD is very attached to this toy. She sleeps with it every night and takes it everywhere with her. She makes a lot of the fact that 'her Daddy got her it and it's her favourite toy in the world'

DD sees ex on average once a month, or every 6 weeks. Yesterday she spent the afternoon with ex and his family. When he dropped her home, she was sobbing- really hysterical, heartbroken sobs. I naturally asked ex what was wrong. He informed me that his sister (aged 25) had decided to take 'her' cat toy back from DD. This was news to me. Nobody had ever mentioned the cat toy was anything other than a gift bought for DD by my ex.

Apparently it was in fact a birthday present from the sister's friend when she was 18 or so. The sister had 'lent' it to DD to play with, but apparently DD was not supposed to take it home and keep it. Yesterday the sister spotted DD with it. and decided she wanted the toy back. So she took it from DD who naturally had a complete meltdown

I was very short with my ex and said 'for god's sake, she is 25, could she not just let the poor child keep the toy, your sister hasn't missed it in months'

Ex just shrugged and said 'but it is HER (sister's) toy. It was never DD's.'

DD sobbed and howled until bedtime, then she woke sobbing in the middle of the night saying she missed her cat. I wanted to tear ex and his whole family apart. I have rarely seen my DD so inconsolable

I told my lovely, lovely friend all about it, and bless her, this morning she drove 30 miles to her parent's house to get the toy lamb that she has had from she was DD's age. She came straight to my house afterwards, and gave DD the lamb, along with a note asking her to take adopt it, as Woolly has been alone in the attic for ages, with no little girl to cuddle. This seems to have worked quite well (friend was given bottle of wine and cake for her troubles) but I am still spitting with rage. I can't believe ex and his family. This is just another example of how they don't give a damn about DD and her feelings, they don't even see her as a child who needs nurtured and occasionally indulged.

Sorry for the rant. Am I BU and overreacting? I know it's possible the toy cat had a lot of sentimental value for exSIL but honestly I doubt it. It's not a particularly special/unusual toy (one of those you get in Toys R Us with the sort of red tags hanging from their ear?) and she doesn't even speak to the friend who gave her it!

If this were my dd she would be spending time with that family over my dead body.

Damn our feckless teenagers for letting another record slip through our fingers. Probably too drunk to fuck.

I am amazed that people can support an aunt's right to property about the well-being of her neice. Maybe because I live in Mexico and my daughter's aunts are the most loving kindest women in the world, I just cannot imagine them behaving like that.

Melodramatic or what!

Limited period Too drunk to fuck Ha ha! Wonder who holds the record now??

I think the dad is particularly hateful for 'going along' with what DD thought, the he suddenly became 'Disney Dad' and had bought her something. I reckon he just swiped it from SIL's room. However if SIL had 'lent' it to your DD then that was very silly. I don't have kids myself but do understand that a child that young would not grasp that it was only to play with. So, on the rare occasions a baby/young child came over to mum's house when I still lived there, I never suggested the baby played with toys of mine.

When I was 14 a much loved teddy disappeared. Despite appearances (he was threadbare -no pun intended). My mum said Dad had burnt it on a bonfire. I then discover 7 years on that mum had done it herself. I had only just at the time knitted some (truly disgusting) shorts for him. I was devastated!! Actually it had been mum's sister's teddy and I somehow acquired it. I am surprised she did not keep it sentimentally (though she is not much on sentiment it has to be said). However the bear had NO fur and tiny sewn on eyes. Yet I called "Bushbaby".

I agree forget about court, don't initiate any contact, leave it to him. Just shows how happy he was to leave his dd is a distressed and distraught state, instead of taking her to buy a replacement toy like any decent father would. You initiating contact is prolonging the hurt. My guess is once you stop initiating contact he just won't bother which is good, considering he is such a piss poor dad.

He is not the dad you want him to be, better not to prolong the hurt.

The problem is you don't know the back story.
You don't know why the aunt values the toy-or if she does: I was given by my best friend a little glass bottle painted by herself as an 18th birthday present. I've hardly seen her since (twice I think) but I would be very upset to lose it. You wouldn't know by looking at it, it's gathering dust on a shelf, but it is very precious to me. I doubt she even remembers giving it to me. In the old house it fell off and rolled away once without me noticing. I looked hard for it, and couldn't find it for ages. If I'd gone round to someone's house and seen it, yes, I would have claimed it back.

You don't know what was said when it was handed to your dd, and by who:
At 4yo if they said "yes you can play with it, but you must give it back before you go home" a 4yo could understand that, and should have realised at the time they shouldn't take it. I've certainly had conversations with 4yos on that lines.
If however it was more along the lines of "why don't you play with this?"
"Can I have it?" "Yes, take it" They are meaning for now, but she takes it to mean for ever in the 4yo taking things at face value, then the aunt should accept she was in the wrong.
However in both cases, they shouldn't have let her take it out of the house the first time, although that is almost certainly the exp fault, not the aunt.

If the exp had taken it from his sis room and not told her, I think it was then for the exp to make it up to your dd. I'm not sure that the aunt is in the wrong taking it back. But exp should have been taking dd to get a replacement toy. But the exp is in the wrong, not the aunt.

If the aunt gave it to her, then saw it again and changed her mind, then she is in the wrong, and worthy of some of the names she's been called on this thread. But I would still think the exp probably should have taken it upon himself to either remonstrate with his sister or go to buy a replacement to comfort dd rather than just taking her back to the OP.

The fact op provides food for dd whilst on contact is disgusting and speaks volumes. He can't even feed his own child. Dd does not need this waster in her life tge sooner he's out of it the better.

I think the fact that the child had the toy for months before there was a request for it to be returned, makes all the difference here.
Yes, it is possible that it might have been special to the adult owner. It might not have been too. The fact that the previous owner managed without if for months without asking for it back, suggests she didn't need it that much. Not surprising as she is an adult.

On the other side is a small 4 year old. It is unclear if she was given it permanently or not, but the fact is that she had it for months. For a child that age, it is the equivalent of forever. She clearly became attached to it. As a small child, it is less easy for her to unattach than for the adult. Even if it was only loaned, I think it is unreasonable of the adults involved to take it back after months and especially when child had formed a clear attachment to it.

I suspect this was partly about power and getting one over on OP. It wasn't purely about the toy. Perhaps the sister or the exP are capricious and inconsistent. Perhaps they did give the toy and then decide not to.....who knows why people would do this, but immature adults do this kind of thing, as a way to exert power. Perhaps they live lives where they don't have much control over many aspects of what goes on....people in this kind of situation often use ridiculous things to gain some sense of control and power.

I agree that children need to learn they cannot have everything they want and things often belong to others. They are not helped in learning this, by being given an item for months at a time, which allows them to develop an attachment to it, and then being expected to return it. Adults need to behave lIke adults and we need to expect small children to behave their age. The adults sound like nightmares to me and I am sorry that the child is having to grow up admist such people.

I'm quite taken by the number of people who keep a formal inventory of items they'd like to keep with a weekly check.

Chocolate Wombat I moved internationally. Sending/shipping items is $$$ so I've left a lot of my "stuff" back in my home country. Don't for one second think I don't know what I have or where it should be (I could pin point where I put it with disturbing accuracy). Just because my stuff is on another hemisphere, on another continent, doesn't mean I care less about it, or would be okay with it being taken without permission (by dad/ex I'm implying here, not DD).

As I said previously I collect toys (adopt them from other family members as well) and there are some I'm more attached to than others for various reasons. My sister recently asked me if she could let my niece play with one of them when she visits mum (where they're stored), and that it would stay at mums. The one she happened to pick is an actual collectible and would be extremely difficult to replace. I made it clear (via message) that my niece was more than welcome to play with it but to take care of it (my sister had a habit of turning barbies into kens and I don't want the same to occur with my niece!). I could give that toy to my niece, and I might, but I'd rather wait till she's older (she's only 2) and can appreciate it.

Some people are being awfully judgy about something they don't understand... (the emotional attachment of the aunt/SIL to the item and the item being a toy) and you don't HAVE to understand why the Aunt/SIL is attached/wanted it back, it's her property and she's entitled to it back.

Doesn't let Dad/ex off the hook for letting DD think it's hers. Or failing to give her anything before so that she attached to something so strongly once she believed he had.

Dad/ex is the problem here. Not the toy. Not the aunt/SIL.

it's her property and she's entitled to it back

I agree with this.

they way it was done was un forgiveable and petty and horrid.

you are very lucky to have nieces and nephews, I don't have any and never will, so faced with an "irreplaceable" toy and a precious niece or nephew who cant be replaced....

seems rather trite and petty and materialistic.

Yes the food thing is shocking too OP. What a shower.

Yes the food thing is shocking too OP. What a shower.

You are not being unreasonable at all. What sort of aunt takes away her 4 year old niece's favourite toy? I can only hope/assume the aunt didnt realise the significance of the toy to your DD. Are you on speaking terms with her? Can you explain how much the toy means to your DD?

So glad your friend gave her the lamb, but so sad that your DD was treated so unkindly. Big hugs to you both xx

'Its her property and she's entitled to it back'

Well, yes if as an adult you want to enforce the letter of the law against a 4 year old. If the toy was not given by the owner, then yes, technically it is hers and she can ask for it back. Hard to believe though that the father simply accepted a request for it back,without mentioning that the child had had it for almost 6 months and was very attached to it.
I think this DOES alter things. The adult, could be, well.....adult in their response to a small child, instead of insisting on their rights.

And Skyadelic, you may collect old toys and be attached to them, as collectors items, but there is nothing to suggest the sister or the toy in question are in the category. Are you saying that if you found yourself in this situation, you would allow a child who had formed a 5 month attachment to a toy (which is a different kind of attachment to yours to that item) to be upset like this? Yes probably the father was most at fault, but wouldn't your real case be with him and not the child. Would you really insist on your rights as the legal owner in this situation?

Well, yes if as an adult you want to enforce the letter of the law against a 4 year old

there are some really horrid people out there arnt there. there really are.

I wish I had a lovely little nephew or niece to give a toy too.

Yes probably the father was most at fault, but wouldn't your real case be with him and not the child No clearly it was with the child

IamSlave, are you agreeing with me?

If I wasn't clear, I was saying that it seems wrong for an adult to insist on the letter of the law, about their ownership, in a situation like this. I was saying that in situations like this, technical ownership is not the key thing, in deciding what to do.

And that the exSiL or Sykadelic (who put herself In The position of the exSIL) might have a grievance with the father for giving the toy away, but surely should take up the issue with him, rather than insisting the child give it back. The child was not in the wrong and should not have to suffer.

I am very much in agrement with you Choclate, every word.

Its your phrasing of "enforcing the letter of the law to a four year old" that brought the mean spiteful nature of the act home to me, again. .

The child was not in the wrong and should not have to suffer

In no way should this child had to suffer in the all the adults involved wrong doing.

The very least she should have come back laden with toys to replace it.

I wish I had a lovely little nephew or niece to give a toy too

Well, every Christmas through my childhood my mother bought me a cuddly toy. They're all together in a press at home. I have children and nephews and I don't really want them to have these toys because I know I'd regret it when my mother is gone as she will be some day.

I don't think that makes me a bad person, or an unkind aunt.

The other thing is, the aunt is not responsible for rectifying her brother's appalling inability to parent. As an aunt you do have to be very careful. They aren't your kids and you can't act like they are. This also means that you don't have to make the sacrifices that a parent would. You get to choose what you want to give.

so if a child got hold of one of these toys apocalpse you would too sort of snatch it back would you?

tough shit kid?

because I would try different strategies, here have another toy....and so on....

Apocalypse, you are right that an aunts role is different to that of a parent. If you were in this situation, as the aunt though, despite it being the father that had caused the problem, it would be within your power to create a situation which upset the innocent child hugely or not. It would be your choice about what to do and the response of the child.
So yes you do have a choice. And you can choose to enforce your rights as the legal owner of the toy, over a 4 year old who has grown attached to the toy, if you want to. If you really felt that you had to do that and create the consequences described by the OP, then yes, it would be your choice.

I suspect that if the OP liked the aunt and had a good relationship with her she may have been more understanding. If the aunt was more likeable she may not have been so childish about the way she got it back though. If one of my kids had squirrelled away something of my sister or SIL's that they wanted back then they would have spoken to me about it and we'd have arranged away for them to get it back. If it was my ex's sister she's a nice person and I'm sure she and my ex would have sorted things out so SIL got her possession back and my sprog had some sort of replacement from the parent who let them nick it.
I don't think SIL wanting her stuff back is unreasonable, it's the stupid and unnecessarily hurtful way it all happened . Everyone seems very melodramatic about it, even down to the OP "spitting with rage".

you were in this situation, as the aunt though

What about, if your in this situation as a human being with a heart facing down a little four year old girl - treated like shit by her father, who has formed an attachment to your toy what about showing some basic humanity.