AIBU to think they should have let DD keep the sodding toy?

[captainbarnaclesismyboyfriend]

DD is 4. I have been separated from her arrogant manchild father for 2 years. Lots of backstory: his family is incredibly dysfunctional, very toxic mother who smothers her adult children, my ex as a result was extremely difficult to live with, behaviour bordering on EA. He dips in and out of DD's life, leaving havoc in his wake. I'm not perfect but I do think I have tried my absolute best to facilitate contact with ex and his family, often to the detriment of my own plans/happiness.

Ex lives with his parents and his 2 adult siblings. About 4-5 months ago, DD came back from the house with a small cuddly cat toy. She said ex had given it to her. I was pleased at this: he never buys her anything, in fact I used to have to buy DD birthday/Christmas presents 'from him' until I got a grip. I still have to send packed lunches to his house when she visits

DD is very attached to this toy. She sleeps with it every night and takes it everywhere with her. She makes a lot of the fact that 'her Daddy got her it and it's her favourite toy in the world'

DD sees ex on average once a month, or every 6 weeks. Yesterday she spent the afternoon with ex and his family. When he dropped her home, she was sobbing- really hysterical, heartbroken sobs. I naturally asked ex what was wrong. He informed me that his sister (aged 25) had decided to take 'her' cat toy back from DD. This was news to me. Nobody had ever mentioned the cat toy was anything other than a gift bought for DD by my ex.

Apparently it was in fact a birthday present from the sister's friend when she was 18 or so. The sister had 'lent' it to DD to play with, but apparently DD was not supposed to take it home and keep it. Yesterday the sister spotted DD with it. and decided she wanted the toy back. So she took it from DD who naturally had a complete meltdown

I was very short with my ex and said 'for god's sake, she is 25, could she not just let the poor child keep the toy, your sister hasn't missed it in months'

Ex just shrugged and said 'but it is HER (sister's) toy. It was never DD's.'

DD sobbed and howled until bedtime, then she woke sobbing in the middle of the night saying she missed her cat. I wanted to tear ex and his whole family apart. I have rarely seen my DD so inconsolable

I told my lovely, lovely friend all about it, and bless her, this morning she drove 30 miles to her parent's house to get the toy lamb that she has had from she was DD's age. She came straight to my house afterwards, and gave DD the lamb, along with a note asking her to take adopt it, as Woolly has been alone in the attic for ages, with no little girl to cuddle. This seems to have worked quite well (friend was given bottle of wine and cake for her troubles) but I am still spitting with rage. I can't believe ex and his family. This is just another example of how they don't give a damn about DD and her feelings, they don't even see her as a child who needs nurtured and occasionally indulged.

Sorry for the rant. Am I BU and overreacting? I know it's possible the toy cat had a lot of sentimental value for exSIL but honestly I doubt it. It's not a particularly special/unusual toy (one of those you get in Toys R Us with the sort of red tags hanging from their ear?) and she doesn't even speak to the friend who gave her it!

This story is really upsetting. So sorry for your dd, OP. Posters who talk about being sentimentally attached to toys from their childhood - isn't that because you really loved your toy when you were a child? This child really loved that cat, it doesn't compare to the feelings an adult might have about a toy, and this one wasn't even a childhood toy for the SIL. Do they definitely know how important the cat was to your dd, OP and still won't relent and return it? If so I think they are both really cruel and I don't think it is melodramatic for the OP to worry about the whole set up as a result. My dd has toys she is really attached to. It breaks my heart to think of someone taking one and her crying for it, and that's without the added issue of the crappy dad who has never given his dd another gift.

Yes, they should have let her keep it. As far as she was concerned, her Daddy had given it to her.

The fact that it turned out that it wasn't his to give wasn't her fault.

The SIL sounds horrible.

Some of you are getting a leetle bit hysterical about the SIL now.

She's a "spiteful bitch", "emotionally damaged" and not to be trusted around children because she lent the kid a toy to play with whilst she was round their house, and then asked for it back a bit later.

Really? Really really really?

I've just noticed SIL doesn't speak to the friend who gave her the toy.

oh Op, if you can, run far, far away from these awful people.

You are downplaying it though aren't you, saucy? The SIL didnt just lend it and ask for it back a bit later and I said if the SIL and father know how much it meant to the dd and don't care how upset she is then I wouldn't blame the OP for feeling how she is feeling (in the context of him generally being crap too). What I was hoping was that the SIL would realise that actually the toy had become a comfort toy to the dd and relent, but it doesn't sound like it.

To be fair we don't know what the SIL said or did, as the OP said she's one of the 'nicer' ones and could have lent it or her ex could have just taken it. Given he's given to lying, I'd be more likely to give the person who hasn't actually done anything spiteful to OP more of the benefit of the doubt. Rather then the shitty excuse for a father who is already known for lying and emotional abuse.

It seems very unfair to paint her as the one in the wrong when the ex is known for lying to get what he wants or to excuse and is known for being shit. It's also unfair for people to say she's spiteful or being nasty when again, all we have is the word of someone who lies to get himself out of trouble.

YADNBU. A grown woman living with her mammy who can't part with a soft toy for her young niece. There are no words!

I've just noticed SIL doesn't speak to the friend who gave her the toy.

So what? If it reminds her of a better time? If she regrets whatever led to them not speaking?

wow, lots of the commentators on this one seem to be missing a compassion chip. All the 'it wasn't hers, she needs to suck it up' people seem to be missing two really important points. Firstly, this is a girl who - if the OP is to be believed - has been very let down by her father and probably consequently is grasping at any small sign that she is valued and loved by him. The toy cat doubtless held a great significance to her, it was one of the only things ever given to her by her father. Secondly, 4 is not necessarily old enough to understand the difference between 'I am letting you play with this for now' and 'I am giving this to you as a present' . . . particularly if this wasn't clearly explained at the time, and we have no idea if it was.

She's a "spiteful bitch", "emotionally damaged" and not to be trusted around children because she lent the kid a toy to play with whilst she was round their house, and then asked for it back a bit later

this isnt a normal family though saucy is it, its a fragmented, strained and emotionally draining one where a father doesn't seem to give two figs about his child, its a highly delicate situation and this girl has been atrocious.

Poor dd, that's a terrible way for her Dad to behave (and his rotten sister). Who the hell gives a child a toy for months, realises she's very attached to it, then takes it away? And her father just shrugged, when the poor kid had been crying all the way home?

What she'll have learned from this is that she can't trust him at all. Sadly that is probably true, but you shouldn't have to learn that at 4 - so painful.

FWIW I have a very strained relationship with my father, who let me and my sister down in very many ways. It is painful but it is also survivable. Your poor dd deserves better, but she has you and that makes all the difference.

Fair point Apocalypse

Hiya, me again.

SIL could well have been devastated about the toy, or she could equally have been dancing around with glee as she ripped it from my DD's hands. With that family, frankly, you wouldn't know what the reaction would be, and I only have the word of my ex as to what happened

If SIL genuinely cared for the toy and wanted it back, then that would be one thing. What has annoyed me most was their complete disregard for DD's feelings. They didn't try to sweeten the blow, or give her something else, or make it up to her (as she is four, and for months was attached to a toy she genuinely thought was hers, which wasn't her fault) they just took it off her. If I had been told that the toy was DD's under false pretenses, and that it was of great value to exSIL, I would have absolutely found a way to give it back with minimal upset to DD. They just don't give a shit though- that's what I'm annoyed at most. That DD's feelings at losing her favourite toy just didn't exist on their list of priorities

There I go, saying 'they' again when of course it is 'ex'. But it's not really ex, he does nothing without his family's approval and knowledge. Ex is just one tentacle of the family octopus

Your poor DD. It sounds as if he found it and gave it to her and it was convenient for him to let her think it was a gift. 4 year old are capable of understanding another persons' possessions and a loan and had he said when she turned up with it that it was a loan the op could have managed a withdrawal. If I were you I would explain what they have done and that it isn't acceptable. I would not be hiding it from her. Your lovely friend. What a lovely thing to do.

My favourite teddy was also a gift from my aunt - it had been her special teddy (given to her by my mum bought with pocket money for aunts first Christmas). He is now 54 years old and has been pressed back into service when DD1 left her teddy at nursery for the weekend (lovely nursery nurse saw it as the first thing she saw on monday morning and was ready with teddy's adventures when DD1 arrived). The importance of such transitional objects to a lot of children is immense. This is a hurt she will not forget. But because she has a lovely mum and lovely godmother do long term it will be them that lose out on a relationship and closeness with your DD.

OP I keep thinking about your poor dd. Is she Ok now with woolly? If not are you sure you can't persuade SIL to relinquish the cat? Could you get her on the phone and properly make her see how much dd misses it? Maybe she really hasn't appreciated how much it means to her and you could sell it to her like you would to a child about how kind it would be?

That is why op you should not facilitate anymore contact with them, leave it open for them. You said it has gotten worse once dd us older. It does nit seem as they really care including dad, I would not want dd around that. As she gets older she will see the truth of how badly they treat her!

Firstly, this is a girl who - if the OP is to be believed - has been very let down by her father and probably consequently is grasping at any small sign that she is valued and loved by him.

Which is the father's fault entirely and nothing to do with his sister. This child should not be in a position where a stupid stuffed cat becomes a symbol of her father's love and all she has to show for it. It's ridiculous the number of adults who seem to think that this is in some way about the aunt not wanting her stuffed toy taken from her permanently. This is the fallout of craptacular parenting over several years by that useless article. If this hadn't blown up over the toy it would eventually blow up over something else.

This has been brewing for some time. It's nothing to do with the sister or the cat. It's utterly, utterly, unspeakable parenting which is bordering on abusive.

I agree apocolypse and I totally agree with tge sentence you highlighted. It is about a 4 year old looking for any sign she is loved by her father, she saw that cat as a symbol of his 'love' for her. Op I would cut contact, let him go through the courts if he wants. It does not sound like he would as going through the courts costs money, he does not spend a thing as it is on dd, he sounds very indifferent about dd.

Can you imagine the reaction if the sil came on with the story!

AiBU, lent my toy cat to 4yo niece, she kept it for awhile, spotted her with it last time she was over and decided I needed it back. V nb to me. Child was hysterical, cried until she left, was aibu to take the toy? It was mine after all.

Admittedly, we don't actually know what went down with the toy. Whatever. It sounds bonkers.

The real issue is that they were totally careless, cruel and callous towards a 4yo child who was so hysterical even her mother found it hard to calm her down hours and hours and hours later. Neither my 3 or 5 yo have ever been that distressed. I'd be really shocked and angry if that happened to my child op and I'm not surprised you're upset.

The toy is actually irrelevant iyam. Who wants their child treated like that, especially by people she is vulnerable to because they are supposed to love and protect her?

What an abusive asshole. Is there a way to legally NC him?

I'd have a talk and just tell her, her father is a jerk, and that has everything to do with him. That way she doesn't internalize it and think it had something to do with him.

You don't unintentionally give a child a gift for months if it wasn't suppose to be theirs.

Yeah, I'd stop contacting him. Let him initiate contact, and then stipulate it needs to be supervised. You don't want her at his house if she's only allowed in two rooms. When she gets older she'll start understanding how horrible her father is.

Let him go through the courts?? ha! that can only make the matters worse (painful for you and DD, and incredibly expensive). DO NOT BLOCK CONTACT, no matter what an arse he is, if you block contact you become the baddie.

Just let the ex take full responsibility to organise contact himself, no help, no chasing. I can assure you that given his apparent lack of effort, contact will decrease more quickly than if you block contact or take him to court.

As for your DD, do not tell her when he is meant to see her, that way she will welcome the surprise of daddy appearing unexpectedly, but if he doesn't show up, she won't be upset about it.

Agree with MeMyselfandI, let it dwindle, don't actively do anything, that way he shows his true colours, and you don't become a target.

I am amazed that people can support an aunt's right to property about the well-being of her neice. Maybe because I live in Mexico and my daughter's aunts are the most loving kindest women in the world, I just cannot imagine them behaving like that.

And I am not of course saying that children can just walk off with other people's property, but that was not the case.

OP, I do hope they lose interest in seeing your daughter.

I wasn't aware there was an international league table of kind aunties and that Mexico was the current champion.

Yet another competition where the British are also-rans

Limited, I hate to break this to you, but our teen pregnancy figures have been falling.

Still, there's always the football... oh... um tennis?.. cheese rolling.