to think that Rainbows and Brownies should be scrapped...

[Bardette]

...and all kids can just go to Beavers and Cubs.
In our area there is a long waiting list for Beavers. My son would like to join a colony but we have been told there it will be at least a term until a space will be available.
Girls can go to Rainbows or Beavers, but boys can only go to Beavers. As girls take up half the spaces in Beavers and all the spaces in Rainbows that means three times the number of places available to girls in local clubs.
Surely it would make more sense and be fairer to have two Beaver colonies?

No, no, no. why are the girls all going to beavers. is the local pack too boring for them. waiting at least a term is nothing. most places its a year. once you are in beavers you should be able to progress through easily to cubs, scouts etc. you would feel differently if you had a girl.

If you have Beaver Colonies only, some girls wouldn't have the choice to attend at all.

Girl Guiding made a choice to remain all female to ensure that some girls had the option to attend, which they wouldn't have if groups were mixed sex.

And some leaders don't want to be in charge of boys, they've made a decision to join Guiding, not Scouting.

More helpers at Beavers, would mean more Colonies could be opened....

I agree op, it's not fair, it should be how it was back in the day, boys Beavers and cubs, and girls Rainbows and Brownies.

Beavers and brownies are completely separate organisations!
There is a substantial body of research which demonstrates that in mixed sex clubs/leisure groups for young people, girls miss out.
Fwiw I think it's a shame that the scout organisation went mixed.

Girls can go to Rainbows or Beavers, but boys can only go to Beavers. As girls take up half the spaces in Beavers and all the spaces in Rainbows that means three times the number of places available to girls in local clubs.

That is a very valid point. Is it fair that girls have more chance of getting into a club?

I know the reasons why the scouting organisation opened up to girls and I know why the guiding one didn't but I've always thought it unfair on boys.

Have you considered opening a new Beaver group/session?

The waiting list for Brownies in our area is 2 years! DD only got in because we went to the other side of our town to get a place.
Our Brownies is amazing, they have done so many fun activities, especially since the warmer weather - Orienteering in the park, Brownie Birthday party, Canal walk (with out and about safety), animal care (with snakes, lizards, hedgehogs etc), and a summer festival with other Brownie packs. That is just the last term!
DD did not like the idea of Cubs or Beavers, Brownies has about the right mix of muddy activities and craft sessions for her.
Your real issue seems to be that there are not enough cubs and beaver groups to cater for the demand, though waiting a term is not bad compared to the lists round here!
Why don't you look in to being a parent volunteer at your local beavers? It may mean they are able to increase numbers slightly. Worth a try, and will speed up the list if they are able to take on more children with your help.

It is owl,and that is why it should go back to the way it was!

My kids now in their 30's went to Woodcraft.Or as they like to call it ' the paramilitary wing of the Co op ' :)

Again, brownies and cubs are separate organisations.
Why should they merge?
The lack of places results because there are not enough leaders.

As has been said, some girls would not be allowed to a mixed group and some just don't want to. Many of the Rainbows/ Brownies age group really do enjoy doing things with other girls; boys at that age are quite boisterous. I do think it is a bit mean though when some girls belong to Rainbows and Beavers and then continue with Brownies and Cubs.

A waiting list of a term is nothing.

Scrapping Rainbows and Brownies would not help the situation at all - surely it would only mean even fewer places available for youngsters.

It is a shame there are so many youngsters on waiting lists (for both of the - completely separate - organisations).. We just need more people who are prepared to step up and offer their time.... then we could have Rainbows, and two Beaver Colonies

Totally different organisations with totally different set ups. Some girls like one, some the other.

Its like saying that all football and rugby clubs should both merge into a "ball sports" club.

If you feel so strongly then I suggest you train up as a leader and open your own group.

Girl guiding has a royal charter that makes them a single sex group where as scouting does not hence their decision to go mixed.

If you are so desperate to have your ds in a group then contact your local group and either offer to help out there or open your own group and stop whinging

What an odd thread! Yes it is true that girls have the choice of both organisations. However, this is not a reason to close Rainbows and Brownies.

It is like saying that because something is not available to all, it should be closed and not available to anyone.
Many Rainbows and Brownies have waiting lists. So do Deavers and Cubs. More leaders for both are needed for more groups to be available, rather than them closing down due to lack of adult support.

Round us, there are huge waiting lists for Brownies and Guides, there's 26 on the current list for my girls group.

I think Guides were originally the girl version of Scouts and are now separate movements. They certainly have things like the Baden Powell award.

Lots of scout groups don't have any girl members though, even if they can admit girls- it says on wiki about 50% have some girl members.

Although I like my children attending a co-ed school, I can also see the benefit of single sex organizations especially for girls.

If Scouts were just for boys I'm not sure your boys would get there any quicker, as there would be less demand/less packs. The main issue is lack of leaders in both organizations.

The Beaver colony at my son's Scout Group is in danger of closing due to lack of leaders. It's a thriving group, but if we don't get new leaders soon, I worry it'll close.

I can't help as the time they meet is a time I can't make due to work commitments. I help in other ways (Secretary of the group, help out at events, etc), but we need more help. It has nothing to do with the number of girls in the group.

Yes Guides was originally begun as a girls version of the Scouts, but is (and I think always was) a separate organisation. It was started by Baden Powell's sister.

I have been volunteering in one capacity or another since my early teens.
I am now approaching 60.

The only reason there is a shortage of places in voluntary organisations is due to lack of volunteers.

Every single group that I have worked in has the same issues.

Currently I help to run group for teenage girls. The parents who do the most complaining are the ones who refuse to do anything to help.

I work, I am a carer, as are couple of the other people who help. It is really hard to get people to give up even a couple of hours of their time.

If you want to get more kids in, you need more adult volunteers to keep the ratios down. So volunteer, or shut up.

Here, my DD could have got into beavers if she'd waited a term.

But the waiting list for rainbows was so long that by the time she got to the top she was actually joining brownies, not rainbows as she was too old by then.

The emphasis of the type of activities that the 2 different organisations do is quite different from what I've seen.

Although I like my children attending a co-ed school, I can also see the benefit of single sex organizations especially for girls.

Education isn't the same though as there are girls only, boys only and co-ed. Equal choice.

I have a senior Commissioner role in Girlguiding, so I will be biased on this.

we are two very different organisations, with a common origin.

I can't stand these sweeping statements of "Brownies do crafts and cubs do outdoor stuff so they re better if your dd is not girlie"

What a load of bollocks. It depends entirely on the leaders and the girls you have.

In the last 6 months I have taken Guides and Senior Section on an international camp, have camped in a zoo and done behind the scenes, have run a science weekend at a science centre, run a fun day for 300 Brownies. My rainbow leaders have taken them trampolining and to the aquarium (not on the same day)

I have 80 girls waiting for places in Brownies in my Division (not inc those already in Rainbows)

BUt maybe we should close up because they could go to beavers/cubs because they are "better".

For the record, I think Scouts should have remained boys only. I think boys need their own space as much as girls do. My sister can't get my Dnephew into beavers for love nor money, because the local colonies are 3/4 full of girls.

Scouts CHOSE to become mixed sex because their numbers were falling rapidly. GG CHOSE to remain single sex.
Why we should stop doing what we do because another organisation made a decision they were free to do defeats me!

BTW this the second anti-Brownies thread on here tonight, someone got an axe to grind?
Just let someone start moaning about the promise change and we will have MN Guiding bingo!

If they closed Girlguiding then all girls would go to the other one. I for one being a Brownie Leader wouldn't leave. We have just as many issues with waiting lists. We need more adults to volunteer to reduce the lists.

I don't really want to volunteer in a club my child attends, but it's certainly something I would consider once my youngest is a bit older.
I don't really understand why Beavers and Cubs couldn't stay boys only and if girls were wanting more boisterous activities then the Rainbows could add them to their agenda.