to think that Rainbows and Brownies should be scrapped...

[Bardette]

...and all kids can just go to Beavers and Cubs.
In our area there is a long waiting list for Beavers. My son would like to join a colony but we have been told there it will be at least a term until a space will be available.
Girls can go to Rainbows or Beavers, but boys can only go to Beavers. As girls take up half the spaces in Beavers and all the spaces in Rainbows that means three times the number of places available to girls in local clubs.
Surely it would make more sense and be fairer to have two Beaver colonies?

But you are saying you will be sending your DD to the clubs that you are also saying should be scrapped?

There isn't some Ministry of Youth organisations you know. These are separate organisations who make separate decisions about who to admit. I really don't see where 'fair' comes into it TBH.

How about looking at smaller local groups and clubs or alternatives like the Woodcraft folk (mentioned upthread) or Boys' brigade if the waiting lists are winding you up this much?

Dd has been in rainbows for a year and has just joined beavers.

She enjoys beavers more as it's more hands on practical and that's more up her street.

I agree that they work as two completely separate organisations.

Dh has already applied to be CRB checked so he can help out at Beavers.

They could increase the number of nights they run meetings as long as cub house is available but it is dependent on more parents volunteering. A lot parents do seem to see it as a free babysitting service especially if the meets are on Friday nights hence why often volunteers feel put upon.

YABU. What a stupid thing to suggest. My girls thrive in an all-girl environment thank you very much. Your suggestion makes a mockery of 100 years of commitment and effort and you should be ashamed of it!

I am a Rainbow guider. I am the ONLY leader for my unit and have to rely on a helpers rota and 6th formers doing the service element of their DofE, or we could not run. In my division alone (one large town and surrounding villages) there are 300 girls unplaced, waiting for a space in a rainbow/brownie or guide unit. 300!!

In our village Rainbows is the only female unit - there's beavers cubs scouts and explorers. Girls who want to go to brownies not cubs have to be able to travel, and are lucky if they can get in because of shortage of spaces.

There is another difference between rainbows and beavers, which means they are not directly comparable, and that is the ages catered for - rainbows 5-7 and beavers 6-8 - this makes quite a difference at that age. some girls may not be ready at 5. For some parents its all about which day/time they can manage to attend when they are juggling so much else. For others its about handing down uniforms from cousins/siblings and it being more convenient for the DDs to be beavers not rainbows. In 10 years I have only known 2 of my rainbows girls go on to cubs instead of brownies, even though cubs is in the same venue and brownies means a journey of at least 4 miles ( a couple have chosen girls brigade instead, and some of course decide to go to swimming or gym and can't fit in a uniformed group too).

Everyone moans about lack of spaces and that 'someone' should do something about it. Very few people actually bother doing anything about it. I got involved because I did not want the unit to close when DD2 was due to join. I work, I have 3 kids and lots of other commitments/activities. If you think its important theres always a way to make it work.

some girls really come out of themselves in an all girls group. If parents of boys want a boys only group let them join boys brigade instead.

The Object of The Boys' Brigade is:
"The advancement of Christ's kingdom among Boys and the promotion of habits of Obedience, Reverence, Discipline, Self-respect and all that tends towards a true Christian manliness."

I think not.

Scouts and Guides have Chrisian origins too Owl.

Point is there are alternatives. Loads.

Christian origins is not the same as the aims of the BB. Not in the slightest. Look at the scouting and guiding promises.

There aren't "loads" of alternatives at all.

And the point of the OP was that girls have more opportunities than boys. If it were the other way round, there would be a call for a MN campaign.

So Phantom if girls should be entitled to girls only why shouldn't boys?

I have no problem with girls only but do think it should go both ways.

Girlguiding has never been a Christian organisation although many units have had historic connections with churches because they use their church halls.

Girls of all faiths and of no faith are very welcome.

The latest iteration of the Promise makes this very clear:

I promise that I will do my best:
To be true to myself and develop my beliefs,
To serve the Queen and my community,
To help other people
and
To keep the (Brownie) Guide Law.

I've no doubt that the Girl Guides are an amazing organisation, and will be signing my daughter up for Rainbows when she is old enough. But I don't understand why we have an all girls group, a mixed group, but we're not allowed an all boys group.

So Phantom if girls should be entitled to girls only why shouldn't boys?
I have no problem with girls only but do think it should go both ways.*

And the point of the OP was that girls have more opportunities than boys. If it were the other way round, there would be a call for a MN campaign.

You do all know that there is no actual legal reason why there aren't more boy-only youth organisations? They are perfectly entitled to exist. Do feel free to set one up.

They can't open more of either without the leaders. It is all volunteers. The answer is simple- be a leader- it is what I did when I found the waiting list was too long.

So because your son has a wait to get into a club he wants to join, you want to shut down the entire Guide movement (worldwide I presume)).

I see.

I will read the thread now.

To be true to myself and develop my beliefs,

Ewwww. Almost enough to make me change my mind and back the scrapping idea.

It wouldn't help in the least SevenZark as the beavers and cubs would not open more without the volunteers.
OP is all 'they should' -rather than what can I do?

It used to say 'my God' which I much preferred, I don't think my children know what their beliefs are, although it may not work for atheists/non-theistic faiths.

"And the point of the OP was that girls have more opportunities than boys."

So in this one one tiny area around the world girls have more opportunities than boys. The opportunity to join a club which opted to remain all female while a separate organisation decided to become mixed. And people want to remove that opportunity.

Girlguiding does a lot of interesting work for example last year this survey around growing up at the moment and sexism. The girls surveyed reported high levels of sexism and anger around that.

So what is needed here is apparently:

• To shut down an organisation (one of the few) that puts girls at the forefront

and

• To force those very girls who reported about the sexism they experience, to lose their "female space" and instead join a mixed group and thus potentially (very potentially) be faced with more of the same, or not have a group to go to at all

I'm not liking this plan.

OP if you want a single sex boys club (because god knows males are really lacking clubs for themselves in every country in the world) then there is nothing stopping you from starting one.

Wanting to shut down this for girls just because there is a waiting list for your son seems petty and mean, quite frankly.

It used to say 'my God'

It used to be plain 'God' in my day which is just as non faith-specific as 'my God' when one considers it.

Scouts stopped being single sex because it had too.

There were not enough leaders, and certainly in my area not enough boys wanting to go. We had all male cadets and no Scouts.

Scouting only survived because mum's helped and sisters and their friends joined too.

It's a situation that looks, slightly odd today, but it's not so long ago, that all football and cricket clubs were boys only.

The plethora of swimming, dancing, drama, gym, trampolining and other sports clubs did not exist.

In rural areas, like mine, schools did nothing after hours as we relied totally on contract buses to get home.

If a girl wanted to do something, especially at secondary age, Guides was it!

At least a term? Blimey - it's well over a year here. But I'm glad there are girls in DS's colony.

If you want another Beaver colony, perhaps you could start one?

We have Brownies here, but no rainbows. All the girls go to beavers to begin with, not sure what the protocol is for deciding between cubs/brownies.

There are no waiting lists here though, we're rural and the groups are small anyway.

It would be a shame to scrap Rainbows and Brownies altogether... they hold no less value than Beavers, Cubs and Scouts.The only reason we don't have Rainbows here is because of small numbers.

So because there are not enough places, you would like to reduce the number of places?

I can't be arsed to read the whole thread. But maras, 'the paramilitary wing of the Co op' made me

It would make an excellent Half Man Half Biscuit lyric