to think that Rainbows and Brownies should be scrapped...

[Bardette]

...and all kids can just go to Beavers and Cubs.
In our area there is a long waiting list for Beavers. My son would like to join a colony but we have been told there it will be at least a term until a space will be available.
Girls can go to Rainbows or Beavers, but boys can only go to Beavers. As girls take up half the spaces in Beavers and all the spaces in Rainbows that means three times the number of places available to girls in local clubs.
Surely it would make more sense and be fairer to have two Beaver colonies?

OP perhaps you should volunteer, most groups are crying out for leaders!

set up your own boys club
volunteer to help
set up a beaver colony

I have nothing but full on admiration and gratitude for the people who run these things. However, I would be utterly utterly crap at it. Truly shite. Not everyone is suited to it. I am crap at any face-to-face stuff.

I do not get the impression that the OP really wants to scrap the guiding movement but was just pointing out the inequity that girls have more opportunities. I can guarantee that if it were girls who had less chance to do something MN would be up in arms.

As I said right at the start, I understand why scouts admitted girls and I understand why guides remain single sex. That doesn't mean I can't see the inequity in it.

So because there are not enough places, you would like to reduce the number of places?

No, I think she was saying that there should be more opportunities for both sexes by replacing single sex with mixed.

I can guarantee that if it were girls who had less chance to do something MN would be up in arms

Yep because girls have as many opportunities for Sunday morning football as boys do.

Oh and girls have equal access to education world wide

scratches tip of massive iceberg

Lottie no thanks they have Beavers,Cubs and Scouts like girls have Rainbows,Brownies and Guides.

Either treat them all single sex,all mixed or give boys priority with Beavers,Cubs and Scouts.Girls do take places from boys when they have a perfectly good set themselves.Several girls go to Beavers,Cubs and Scouts here and the waiting lists for B,C and S are always big.

I have girls and boys and can see it isn't fair.

Have you read the thread where it is very clearly explained that the organisations are separate.

The scouts chose to admit girls and there is no legislation that prevents an all male organisation?

And yet the OP thinks it's unfair and girls should miss out because they are encroaching on the boys? An all male organisation decided to admit girls 20 odd years ago.

This is now the fault of the greedy girls taking all the places.

There are very few girls at the Scout troop my son is a member of, which is testament I think to how good the Brownie and Guide packs (?) are here. Scouting, and I'm talking specifically about my village here, involves a lot of pen knives, mud and camping - fieldcraft basically - which the Brownies and Guides do too, but it's not their main focus.

Lottie there clearly is a problem,it needs to be sorted so if those pesky boys aren't welcome at the girls organisations sorry then girls should be phased out of the boys as they leave or boys should always have priority over girls(who can join Brownies etc instead).

Not really a big deal.Simetimes things work and sometimes they don't.

Personally I think they should all be mixed but I understand some girls melt in the precence of boys.

Posted too soon...

I think it would be nice if boys were admitted to Guides, but I understand their position.

I have no idea why anyone would think that GirlGuiding should disband their younger groups just because Scouting has chosen to make their groups open to boys and girls.

If you have a problem with waiting lists for Scout groups, talk to the Scouts. Don't try and punish people who have chosen to use a third party, unrelated activity club.

"long waiting list for Beavers ... at least a term"

The waiting list for Rainbows around here is at least 18 months. I'm not sure about Beavers (that may be shorter) but the Scout promise (including Beavers) still has God in it while the Guide promise (including Rainbows) doesn't.

IIRC the reason UK Scouting organisations started accepting girls was that numbers were starting to dwindle and it was the best way of keeping troops going. So part of the reason there are more places available to girls is that girls are more interested in joining these organisations; if it had been left as boys-only then a lot of troops (perhaps including the one your son wants to join) would have folded altogether by now through lack of interest and a term's wait would be the least of your problems.

retro your posts are interesting...

I don't think there is a gender problem actually, waiting lists for both guiding and scouting are huge. There is a lack of leader problem though. That's partly why scouting admitted girls, they needed mums to join the volunteer force, and they saw allowing daughters to attend a way into ensuring that happened.

Sure, go ahead and tell the currently extremely popular and successful scouting organisation to phase out the girls and see how you get on.

I think girls are more interested in general in joining these type of organisations. Round here the waiting lists for Brownies are certainly significantly longer than those for Cubs.

By the way, a term's wait is nothing!! If your unit can give you spaces in a term, that suggests that actually it's the presence of the girls that are keeping the group going.

It's interesting that scout-type groups have to be run by adults. Here the actual activities leaders (the people the children see as their leaders) are generally 16-25 year olds who've gone through the whole scouting thing and it's just the continuation of being involved; you become a leader and help organise the camps etc. It probably helps that the country is so small and everyone goes home at the weekend from uni.
This way there's usually no problem with finding leaders, because people want to stay involved with the friends they've been through it all with.

OwlCapone, you said, (wish there was a better way to quote on MN!) "I have nothing but full on admiration and gratitude for the people who run these things. However, I would be utterly utterly crap at it. Truly shite. Not everyone is suited to it. I am crap at any face-to-face stuff."

Not all volunteers need to do face to face stuff.

I've got a volunteer who does my waiting list admin, someone does my accounts etc. Other roles might be being the brains behind fundraising or doing DIY at a meeting place. It takes a huge load off of me and means that I can spend much more time on making my Brownie pack as much fun as possible. I really, really appreciate it.

I'd say to anyone reading this (male and female) to consider volunteering. It doesn't have to mean being a youth leader.

Scrap them both and everybody uses the woodcraft folk.

[Ducks and runs for cover]

Disclaimer: I do not actually think this, although I prefer organisations for young children to be universally inclusive.

Op I'd complain and politely suggest boys have priority seeing as how girls have other things to join.

The more people that do the bigger the likelihood that something is done about it.

Have you seen the Woodcraft Folk waiting lists, attheend? They are worse than Rainbows...

I have been thinking about this thread, whilst cleaning the bathroom, and whilst I do think the OPs initial point was nuts - how would banning Brownies create more space in Cubs? - I do think boys are being done a disservice by there not being any boys only spaces where boys can benefit from a positive male mentor and role model. However, the sad fact is that Scouting is not going to be able to offer this to boys. If it reverted to boys only membership, it still would have a lack of male role models to offer boys, and even fewer boys would have the chance to participate, as all the female scouters would also have to leave. I know very few scouting groups with only male leadership - and far more with only female leadership.

I think it is very sad for boys, but has nothing to do with the Guiding movement, and it's commitment to providing a space for girls to enjoy a girl only space.

fideliney, you might not like the wording (and to be honest, it isn't what I would have chosen) but that is what was voted on in a massive consultation exercise involving members (so from Rainbows of 5 upwards.

Girlguiding is a democratic organisation that gives the smallest girls the opportunity to be involved in decision making within the organisation and beyond.

2013 Girls Attitude Survey

Promise Consultation FAQs

We've got young women representing Girlguiding at all the major party conferences and send members to the UN Commission on the Status of Women and the UN General Assembly.

Scouts, guides,explorers, sea scouts - all different, all attract different personalities, it gives children and teenagers choice.
The only reason there is a shortage of places in any voluntary organisation is because it is so difficult to get parents to volunteer.
This means that the people who do volunteer end up with everything to do and on top of that they have to put up with the whingeing and grumbling from the people who are not prepared to help.
It is perfectly possible to volunteer to do stuff that doesn't involve face to face with kids.
You can help with fund raising, bake for refreshments or sales, help with managing the accounts, research and apply for community grants, research/organise trips and activities for example. These things take up a lot of time and usually have to be done by one or two leaders who are already run off their feet.
I am currently fulfilling 3 separate roles for my club because nobody else will offer to help.

Its commitment. Bloody autocorrect has appalling grammar...

Oak ours is fab,has loads of volunteers,mostly male.Every family seems to takes their turn and most weeks many parents turn up.They do a lot of fab outdoorsy activities(Devon) and make good use of our lovely surroundings.

Seem to remember the wait for Beavers was years.