to think that Rainbows and Brownies should be scrapped...

[Bardette]

...and all kids can just go to Beavers and Cubs.
In our area there is a long waiting list for Beavers. My son would like to join a colony but we have been told there it will be at least a term until a space will be available.
Girls can go to Rainbows or Beavers, but boys can only go to Beavers. As girls take up half the spaces in Beavers and all the spaces in Rainbows that means three times the number of places available to girls in local clubs.
Surely it would make more sense and be fairer to have two Beaver colonies?

Bear in mind that the people who run scouts and guides locally are all volunteers. Often they are really good at being leaders but have very little time to spare for or are rubbish at admin. If you don't hear back, then try again- it is almost certainly cock up not conspiracy.

Although they might not have to have a female leader I think they should have one. E.g. It could be very difficult for a girl on a camp to approach a man if they were having their period.

I'm pretty sure that on a residential with both sex children, there would need to be a woman. It might not be one of the usual leaders (if there are no women leaders) but a woman would have to be found to go along.

Delphin, the Scout Assoc would agree with you. It is best practice to have a mixed leadership, especially on a camp. Unfortunately, going back to the lack of volunteers, sometimes it isn't possible. The choice becomes not going on a camp at all because they can't get a female volunteer or going and being careful to think of extra issues like a girl starting her period.

Camp is different. You can usually find a volunteer or an Explorer or two to go to camp. Or a leader from another age group.

DD was a Rainbow, took a year out due to waiting lists (she was on both Cub and Brownie lists), and then became a Cub. She has a friend who is a boy who would have absolutely loved to be a Brownie, and they have often discussed how the 'one way' flexibility seems unfair.

Locally, however, the 'Baden Powel economy' seems quite stable. About twice as many Scouting units exist as do guiding units. Mostly this is by there being e.g. 2x Beavers + 2x Cubs + 1 or 2x Scouts running out of the same hall on different nights, while Guiding units do 1x each. Waiting lsist seem to be about 1 year, but that is quite well-publicised so most parents register their children early.

I'm glad DD had the flexibility to sample both sides. She does a very, very girl-heavy extracurricular acrtivity, so screaming round to Cubs to get muddy (she was one of only 2 girls in her pack, which was one of those in which the slightly military origins of scouting was very well-preserved!) was a brilliant antidote.

fatowl I've been wondering if I should volunteer for girlguiding. I'm not sure if it's for me though. I've been dithering back and forth for years. Any advice?

As others have said - you don't have to have a female Leader, but it's good practice to if you can, and, as Hakluyt says, you can often find someone who is willing to join you for that weekend, who normally does their Scouting at another group or in another section.

That's my experience too teacherwith2kids - I'm in a City and there are LOADS more Scout Groups than there are Brownies Packs/Guide Companies/Ranger Units, so there's certainly just as many places for boys around here as there are for girls, although I accept that could be different in rural areas where there isn't the same volume of population or youth organisations.

Iamslave, chances are she just forgot to email you back, I'm terrible at the admin side!

Delphin, My Dad's scouts generally used to drag leaders wives along for camps before my sister became a leader, Ideally they should all have a female leader but there is a distinct lack of volunteers for either organisation so it's not always possible.

rivierliedje If you are not sure, why not volunteer to help as a unit helper at first - that's basically a person that comes along and helps at meetings but doesn't make any further committment? You can give as much or as little time as you want (e.g. our unit helper comes when she can but is dependent on her DH's job, so it might mean we see her every week for 4 weeks but then not at all for the next 6!!) and it will give you an inkling as to what is involved and whether or not you want to get involved further.

It all goes around to a problem getting volunteers- everyone wants someone else to do it!
Admin is bound to suffer- if short of time you put the meetings first.
I volunteer for several things- it is the record keeping that I am terrible at!

redsky I didn't know you could do that. Thanks. My real fear is that I'm not enough of a joining-in person to fit in.

rivierliedje I'd see if you can visit a local Rainbow/Brownie/Guide/Senior Section/Ranger unit/pack and see what you think. The different ages need very different input from their adult leaders. Senior Section for example are meant to need virtually none (it's up to the members to arrange and run their own meetings) whereas Rainbows need a lot more supervision, hand holding, cat herding, mopping up etc even though they might also be choosing what activities they want to do.

If you don't want to volunteer in a face-to-face role, offer to take on the admin/accounts/planning - you can do mine if you like :o whatever you feel comfortable with.

You can also be an Occasional Helper, which would be attending meetings very infrequently, or you can offer to help out with residentials, eg as quartermaster for Guide camps etc.

It is worth it, I offered to be a unit helper but ended up as leader of a seperate Rainbow unit that was due to close if someone didn't step forward. I haven't regretted it for a moment well only a few moments. Still, it's an hour a week... shhh you lot don't laugh, honest it's an hour...

rivieriledje - if you sign up on the Guiding website (links below) your local Commissioner will come back to you and then you can meet to discuss how you'd like to help.

Interesting statistics:

One in seven of all six-year-old girls in the UK are Rainbows.
Around a quarter of all eight-year-old girls in the UK are Brownies.
One in ten of all 11-year-old girls in the UK are Guides.

The reason for waiting lists is not enough leaders. It's bloody hard to get anyone to volunteer yet easy to moan about not enough spaces. Fwiw i think having a girl only space is really important. Could not understand why scouts went unisex as boys do as well. You have said you don't want to volunteer where your dc are - fair enough but perhaps think about other units? Start a new colony and send dc to the existing one. My darling mum has always said to me don't moan if you aren't prepared to do something about it. And I agree (which is probably why I started a guide unit where I saw a need despite having no dc at the time!)

Thanks toniwolf and ruedeawakening. I never realised there were so many possibilities. Maybe I'll go for it then. Does that work for overseas groups too toniwolf?

Wow, a quarter Oak! That's a huge number.

BeatriceBean: you could start a group...?

Thedevilinside: what county are you in?

Madwoman: "I can pass for woo by firelight". . Again, fantastic...

You don't need separate toilets. Often, you don't need a male AND female leader - it depends on the activity. You do for overnighters. A 'leader' in that context might just be a full member with DBS. (Let's remember that Woodcraft is a democratic organisation, often run by co-operative... and we may not be calling them leaders at all...)

Ah - not sure if it works for BGIFC or other countries Guiding.

Where are you?

Broken, I am in Berkshire,

Nope I don't have capacity to start a group. I'd have been interested in occasionally helping if there was one near me. I do like a lot of their values.

My little one is enjoying rainbows in the mean time :)

I'm in Belgium. I know there are British guides here and British scouts and American ones come to that.

It appears it does work.

www.beneluxandfrance.bgifc.org.uk/be.html is the website for the area which would cover you.

BGIFC is part of Girlguiding UK. They are units run along UK guiding principals and are in mainly areas where there are a number of British people residing either temporarily or permenantly.

The main idea was the families would only be there temporarily and not able to access local provision ie forces families, parents working abroad for a short period of time.

I put DS on a beavers waiting list shortly after he turned 4. He's now 7 with no space. A term is nothing!

Am still grateful for those that do volunteer and hoping he will get into cubs at least in due course.