to think that Rainbows and Brownies should be scrapped...

[Bardette]

...and all kids can just go to Beavers and Cubs.
In our area there is a long waiting list for Beavers. My son would like to join a colony but we have been told there it will be at least a term until a space will be available.
Girls can go to Rainbows or Beavers, but boys can only go to Beavers. As girls take up half the spaces in Beavers and all the spaces in Rainbows that means three times the number of places available to girls in local clubs.
Surely it would make more sense and be fairer to have two Beaver colonies?

Rule 3.6 Mixed Membership
a. This rule is left intentionally blank. b. This rule is left intentionally blank. c. This rule is left intentionally blank. d. This rule is left intentionally blank. e. This rule is left intentionally blank.
f. All Scout Groups, Explorer Scout Units and Scout Networks are required to be open to male and female membership except in special situations. Single sex Sections may exist within a Scout Group provided that membership is available for both sexes across all Sections within that Group.
g. Special situations are defined as being where:
? there are cultural or religious requirements for single sex working;
? Scouting is offered in a single sex institution (e.g. school, young offenders institute) through a closed Scout Group);
? a specialist single sex provision is required to meet a clearly identified educational need (e.g. Scouting for young mothers).
The decision whether Groups may become an exception to the policy is made by the District Commissioner in consultation with the County Commissioner.

From- members.scouts.org.uk/documents/POR%20Updates%20Jan%202012.pdf

You can't just complain and ask them to discriminate against girls. As well as being a crap idea it is actively against their own rules.

There are some. But my family has been involved in a total of 7 units over the years, and in different roles, and only one of those had all male leadership. 2 of the had all female leadership, and the others were mostly female, but with one or two male helpers.

Well sorry I want my kids to learn orientieering,Kyacking,abseiling,Letterboxing,fire making,mountain biking,etc,etc.All the fantastic things that make great use of their surroundings.Cubs and Scouts are the the only club that offers this at an affordable rate with their friends.

Oak our leader is great at rallying the troups as regards volunteers.

As Scouts and Guides are charities, there are many ways you can volunteer.

I'm Secretary of my son's Scout Group, we also have a chairman and a treasurer. Only the chairman has been/still is an actual leader, he's taking on this role to stay involved at a lower level due to stuff.

Our district also has people volunteering as administrators, fund raisers, etc. Not all the volunteers are leaders.

If people want to volunteer but can't commit to a weekly meeting/camping activities, there are ways to help.

But people can complain Lottie,last I heard it wasn't a dictatorship,the more that do,the more likelihood something is done.

My dd would be gutted if rainbows was shut down.

She loves having something that is just for her, with DS being asd this is 1 thing she looks forward to.

Been looking for the club for DS, but it's proving rather difficult.

Oh dear bardette. Fail much?

You know, if you volunteer as a leader, your poor discriminated against child would get a place automatically, and you would also be helping to reduce the wait list for the other kids?

I know you don't WANT to volunteer, but to moan about waiting lists, and come up with some half-assed plan involving making the waiting lists longer by canning an entirely different organization... Well, you just haven't thought it through, really, have you?

I happen to have volunteered for both organizations as a leader. I'm just with guides now. Have kids in both. Also work ft, have three kids, two with sn. Give me my damned medal now, it ain't that hard to give up a couple of hours a week. (Ssssh, you lot. I'm lending credence to couple of hours theory)

I really hate these threads. Always started out of ignorance.

Scouting would be dead in the water if it weren't for female leaders. Not enough men are willing to give up their time for youth volunteering. The answer isn't to reduce the opportunities girls and women have.

Sure, It's annoying as a parent who wants their son to join. But just get off your arse and open another unit, or volunteer at the existing one to create more space. There wasn't even scouting in the village we moved to, so a friend and I opened a joint Beavers and cubs unit. Neither of us knew the first thing about Scouting. We just went a visited a nearby town and did the training. No big deal.

And yes, if I had a pound for every single parent that carefully explained to me that they couldn't volunteer because they were oh so busy, etc etc. There's no need for an excuse. If you don't want to, don't. But don't moan to me when I don't have room for your child. You should have thought about it sooner and got his name on his wait list earlier.

And I am still laughing about a term being a long wait. I'm willing to bet that most guide units have a longer waiting list than scouts. Using the op's logic, we should just can the boys from scouts as well, right? Make both organizations female only?

Bwahahahahaha.

But can't you understand that asking them to discriminate against girls is like asking them to give priority to 'the white kids first', or 'the Jewish kids'

You can make any ridiculous discriminatory complaint you like, it won't get you anywhere though. thank fuck

Oh and Brownies etc are discriminating against boys(they're not even allowed to join)sooooo not seeing the relevance of the discrimination wails re boys having priority over girls in cubs etc.

Well then Brownies really need to get their shit together re excluding boys.

I'm glad you have found a fab troop then, Retro. I am actually a great fan of Scouting AND guiding (as an ex scouter and current Brown Owl), and I don't think the effectiveness of the either organisation as a whole is in any way marred by the gender of its leaders. I also love the idea that there is a club which offers varied and active programmes and caters for both genders. But that doesn't stop me thinking that it is a shame that more boys don't have access to positive male role models in scouts.

Retropear
Well sorry I want my kids to learn orientieering, Kyacking, abseiling, Letterboxing, fire making, mountain biking, etc, etc. All the fantastic things that make great use of their surroundings.Cubs and Scouts are the the only club that offers this at an affordable rate with their friends.

In your area, maybe, but DD has done some of these things at Guides. It'll be all down to the individual groups, what the children want and what is available.

I wish people would stop making blanket statements about what cubs do and what brownies do. This depends mainly on the individual leaders!! I'm a brownie leader and a parent helper at DS's cubs (which has no girls in). The 2 programmes are virtually identical.

DS had a trial at one cub unit which went camping every year, but at weekly meetings did quiet craft activities sitting round a table EVERY WEEK. No way was that unit more adventurous that all but the least adventurous of brownie units.

Yes I thought they all had what my kids are having.It's sad.Shame they couldn't campaign for more in areas where their are difficulties recruiting with say students or pensioners getting involved more.

The difference is, retro, that you are allowed girls only clubs, and you at allowed boys only clubs. What you can't do is claim your club is open to both, but give one gender priority.

Right it's like arguing with a lamp post. Are you deliberately misunderstanding that each organisation has chosen who they want to admit?

It only gets into discrimination if you start saying, we're a coed organisation but if there's a waiting list only one sex can attend.

You could I suppose complain on a national level and ask for them to reconsider their coed status nationally. But seeing as they couldn't function without the contribution made by female volunteers and numbers nationally would take a massive tumble without the girls it seems bloody unlikely that you will succeed.

The Scouting movement chose to take girls- the was no obligation on them. They made the decision for pragmatic reasons- a lack of recruits.

Guides decided to remain girl only. They had no lack of recruits, and also took the view that there were many girls, both in this country and others, that at would not be allowed to go to a mixed sex group.

Th massive waiting lists are largely due to a lack of volunteers. It is incredibly hard to get leaders. And, frankly, sometimes I can see why- it can be a pretty thankless task!

Retropear
Oh and Brownies etc are discriminating against boys(they're not even allowed to join)sooooo not seeing the relevance of the discrimination wails re boys having priority over girls in cubs etc.

Guides chose to remain girls only, because if boys were allowed to join then many girls would not be allowed to attend by their parents, thus removing any choice at all from these girls. There are two girls in DD's troop who would not be attending if boys were there.

Retro, your girls should join our guide unit

In all seriousness, having been involved in planning these activities in both scouting and guiding, I have chosen to remain with guides. The risk assessment process is more rigorous, and the 'what-if's more thought out. There are rules regarding qualifications for activity leaders, third party service providers etc etc, and at least locally, the same stringency isn't applied to scouting.

We do exactly the same activities.

Exactly the same.

But my approval to run the activity as a guider is definitely more rigorous.

I am curious as to why - I assume it is part of the 'boys will be boys' mentality (even though some of them are girls) but an organization that doesn't even check if my son can swim before taking a group kayaking makes me nervous.

Our girls have been swimming, rock climbing, and this summer will be kayaking, zorbing... Our camp site for fall is on the banks of a huge lake, and the guides own a rack of canoes that live on the shoreline for use.

This myth that only the boys get to fun stuff is bizarre. The answer is the same to mums of girls who want to kayak, but the guides only do crafts - BECOME A LEADER and take them kayaking. Really, it's that simple.

People will always find a way to moan at volunteer organizations, but won't get off their backsides and do anything to improve their local facilities. Far easier to complain about the volunteers in situ than out yourself out for a bit of judging yourself, eh?

I'm sure they'd do something if enough complained and given the fact they're trying to stop golf clubs from excluding women by law to be honest I can't see how the Brownie movement can carry on excluding boys for much longer.

Mad dd is a Brownie,boys are Scouts.

Both are fab.Rainbows were utter shite.

My dd's beaver leader is a woman.

Wonder if she would/could continue if scouts went back to boys only

Itsallgoingtobefine the Woodcraft Folk still exist? My parents were in the Woodcraft Folk when I was little (a very long time ago) and used to take me to WF events.

I find it really sad that in a world where females are discriminated against so terribly, people would cheerfully remove one of the only things available to them, because it's "snoffair" for the boys.

So the boys get to do whatever they fancy and the girls get to take a backseat and be excluded.

Meanwhile all the "boys clubs" both formal and informal continue unabated.

Same old same last few millennia