AIBU to have no idea what British values are

[PeachyParisian]

Can anyone enlighten me?
Just seen this and I'm not sure what makes a value British

www.bbc.com/news/education-27777421

Why can't we be 'British'? Other nationalities are allowed to celebrate their countries and their heritage but some people seem intent on making Britishness a dirty word. I despair.

Grey but what does it actually mean to show 'British values'? And what would a teacher be doing to 'undermine' them, as it warns you not to do in the Teachers' Standards?

Yes greylady. I think we should celebrate our values - we've worked hard to evolve and grow and learn from experiences and past mistakes as a nation.

Wait for it...I am going to say something which I know will have some of you up in arms and accusing me of 'cherry picking' from the news. I do not want to see teenage girls hanging from trees, I do not want to hear of women being publicly stoned for marrying against their fathers wishes. I do not want young girls forced into marriage back 'home'. I am appalled by the Sudanese case (is she free yet?).
I want to see girls and boys of any ethnicity wearing whatever is culturally appropriate for them and attending whichever place of worship they want without fear or prejudice. I would like marriage to be about love. I would like young people of whatever culture to walk hand in hand in public, to be welcomed into one another's homes and to be educated side by side by teachers from all cultures, secure in the knowledge that that teaching is about tolerance and respect.
We have become a multicultural society and we should rejoice in that but remember that, surely, immigrants to Britain come because they want to embrace our culture with all that that implies.
I have a Muslim daughter in law who I love dearly. She says she could not ever be part of a Muslim community in Britain because of the extremism here.

I see where you're coming from thegreylady but the word "British" just doesn't have very good associations for me ...

The British Empire
The British National Party
etc.

I think for me "English" seems better - then I think of English as a subject at school - which I loved, English literature etc. Also English rose etc. That all feels much more comfortable and something to be proud of.

If I think of France for example there's French food, French art - even though they also had an empire that doesn't come to mind for me - perhaps because, not being French, I'm not as aware of French history.

Sport seems to help with the word's image somewhat, but it's only at the Olympics that we play as a British team, and keep a tally of our British medals. At the world cup for example we send an English team.
Come on England!

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick comparing British values to other Western countries values. We need to remember what our Western democratic values are as some communities are abusing the very tolerance that Britain has shown over the last few decades.

This article illustrates the kind of abuse I am referring to.

Link to Article

So quit French bashing and focus on what makes our country open minded but not permissive. If it means calling these values British, why not? We are in Britain as far as I can tell. The end justifies the means

British values are about a philosophy - how we live and wish to treat others. The NHS service, for a start is a good example of how we value the importance of good health for everyone, and providing a good service ...it's a priority to the British that on the whole we need never be sick without treatment being offered ...

grey I think the things that you want are perfectly reasonable. I'm sure the vast majority of people in this country want the same, whether they identify as 'British' or not. So why the label of 'British values', as if Brits are the only ones who want these things?

To me, labelling a part of education as showing 'British values' ostracises those who don't identify as 'British'. It makes it seem as if their right to be educated is not on par with a 'British' person's right to be educated.

Juggling but then you have The English Defence League. We cannot allow these racist groups to defile the name of our country. The British Empire was of its time and did great good as well as evil. We need to take back Britishness, let every household ,whatever their ethnicity ,display a flag so you take it back from the thugs.

Animation so what could a teacher be doing to 'undermine' those 'British values'? That's where I'm confused. Is it about not treating children equally? Because as far as I'm aware, that's a value for most teachers in western countries (I won't speak about the rest of the world as I know very little about the education systems elsewhere.)

Yes, must admit the EDL did come to mind too, but not the first thing I think of when I hear the word English.
Maybe the government and society as a whole should use the word "British" more often in more positive and neutral ways if we do want to reclaim it from the thugs.

But at the moment I'm not sure I'd be happy to fly a British flag outside my home - except perhaps an English one during the world cup!

Generally I feel patriotism isn't usually that helpful. I'd rather be a citizen of the world, or a European I'd fly a United Nations flag!

This British Values business is highly divisive and has been cynically wheeled out for political reasons. As others of said, many of the values are present in lots of other liberal democracies around the world.

The comments above about free healthcare etc being a Briitsh Value don't reflect the reality because this arrived as part of the Post-War Settlement in 1945 and its dismantlement, albeit very slowly, started in 1979. That's going to prove to be a short-lived national characteristic.

I'm also very sceptical about fairness and tolerance extended universally being a British Value. Gays were generally hated/feared/despised until the 1980s and it was only the bravery of those coming out, particularly in the arts and the media, that started a general level of tolerance throughout much of the population. Since comments can be made about fairness in the workplace for women.

As far as I'm concerned it would be a British Value not to think in terms of British Values. Also, to view with a degree of distaste anything looking like excessive patriotism.

Me too Juggling! I'm proud to be from the EU, but not the UK...

When I lived in the UK, I always thought it was a bit sad that it was almost impossible to express pride in being British without being called racist. We Kiwis are forever marching round waving our silver ferns and doing the haka, we know our country isn't perfect but we are still proud of it (generally).

I don't know if I can list "British values" but here are some positive qualities I associate with Britain: quality banter; Blitz spirit; self-deprecating humour; proud tradition of human rights; robust constitutional democracy; freedom of the press.

Long summer evenings at the pub; Hampstead Heath on a glorious summer day; Oxford; the sunday newspapers; Dorset muesli; raspberries; a cosy pub on a winter afternoon; the Christmas lights in London; Evelyn Waugh; all the art galleries and museums ... I could go on. (Clearly my experience is very London-centric).

On the flip side there's being scared a lippy teenager might stab you; the queues at the supermarket at 4.30 on a Sunday; the difficulty of finding good coffee or sushi (not as bad as it used to be); the class system; "all change" on the bus you waited half an hour for; feeling as though winter will never end and as though summer never really arrived ...

I really miss English raspberries.

Gennz the things that you have listed are certainly commonly British, but how does that fit in with education? Do we need to hand out raspberries in muesli during maths and read the Sunday newspapers during English? (Of course, I am being ridiculous but you get my drift).

(That should read "raspberries and muesli"!)

the first para of the list was more about education/values ... the rest was just me getting carried away. Our raspberries are really tiny here misses point entirely

That fits in with something I was thinking about EasyWhiteChocolate. If the term British Values were to have a real meaning it would be those things that make Britain a good place to lead (relatively) free and productive lives.

Stuff that's, effectively, things that make Britain quirky and entertainingly eccentric don't really count. Lots of countries have their own eccentricities.

My main objection to the term is that it's Humpty Dumpty talk. It doesn't really have a meaning and that's why the politicians are rather keen on it. Especially since it can be used as a dog whistle.

Our raspberries are really tiny here misses point entirely

But have you ever had the tiny strawberries you can find growing in the wild, for example in the Nordic countries? They are exquisite.

No I haven't! Yum. Overly large strawberries tend to be a bit tasteless.

derails thread

I'm quite happy to have a chat about raspberries and strawberries (sorry OP!). My uncle has a strawberry farm (oh so very British, Gove would be proud) yet never lets me have any strawberries! I hear they're delicious though...

Having now read the article, I do think of the rule of law as a British "value"/concept/creation having evolved down from the Magna Carta - that no one is above the law, even King John, and that the law acts as a constraint across all classes. Now though, it's not uniquely British (you'd hope) though many countries in which the rule of law is established owe that fact to their colonial predecessors.

He's talking rubbish about the rest though. Mutual respect and tolerance are not "British values" though I think you see them demonstrated often in Britain. NZ is a very tolerant progressive nation and I don't think its because we were a colony.

I wish I had a strawberry farm in the family!!

The tiny ones are easy to grow in England, I've had the same wild strawberry plant since I was 14 and it now lives in my DMs garden.

But aren't alot of New Zealanders from the British Isles and have broadly christian values?

I like your viewpoint about Evelyn Waugh and hazy Summer days. I suppose it could fit into English Lit if they put Brideshead Revisited on the GCSE list :)

Well lots of the NZ European originated from Britain in the mid 19th century but also loads of Irish came out in the mid 19th century too (who I wouldn't call British as most were fiercely anti British!), obviously the indigenous Maori population, huge Pacific Island community (Auckland is the largest Pacific Island city in the world), large Asian population now as well.