AIBU to have no idea what British values are

[PeachyParisian]

Can anyone enlighten me?
Just seen this and I'm not sure what makes a value British

www.bbc.com/news/education-27777421

Having a biscuit/s with a cup of tea or coffee.

The envy is almost impressive - i.e. some schools are sht, therefore all schools should be made sht so those pupils/parents/teachers don't feel so bad about themselves.

TrueGent - you are talking a load of old nonsense, bless you.

SteamTrains is right. 8) Loving tea with biscuits (has to be biscuits, not cookies!) If you don't love it, you must at least respect them and be able to serve them to friends. Not liking at least one or the other does seem very unBritish, though, haha. Food is always a good one to define national identity - but I don't think Mr Gove had food appreciation in mind...ha ha. Actually, I would add to this 9) The ability to make/find someone in distress a (good) hot cup of tea to make them feel better. You can generally identify a Brit anywhere when he/she does this.

Downamongtherednecks - I wasn't just meaning the battle of Fishguard (a bit of a farce) - but Scotland was invaded by Norway in the 13th century and actually England itself was "invaded" (albeit by invitation) when William and Mary took over the throne in the 17th century. Quite apart from all the invasions of England by Scotland and Scotland by England before (and after ) the Union of the Crowns/Treaty of Union .

My dps are immigrants and came to UK mainly to escape from their own country's repressive political regime don't want to out myself by naming it. They say the best thing about living in the UK is waking up every morning knowing none of your family has been arrested overnight and 'disappeared', being able to say what you want without worrying whether your neighbours will report you to the secret police, not having to worry that the price of food quadrupling in a week, knowing that you will be paid at the end of the month, not having to you don't have to worry if there's enough money to see a dr if your dcs are ill. Basically all the things we take for granted in the UK.

When I was in my twenties I spent a year working in my parents home country and though I enjoyed getting to know my parents' heritage and culture I also became aware of how British in outlook I was and how much more at home I feel here than in their country. I do think people who are the children of immigrants do often have a rose tinted view of their parents homeland also those parents foster this view in their children and only remember the good things about the country they've left and it would be good for them to spend sometime living and working in those countries so they get a more realistic view of life there.

Things aren't perfect in the UK but on the whole it's far better here than in most other countries in the world.

Doing the "side step dance".

prettybird I do take your point. But mere historical facts are irrelevant to the image the UK has abroad, ie bloody stable, solid and therefore worthy of copying. Mumzy is right that it is a lot better in the UK than in many places. I never felt patriotic until I stood in a poor "new" capital and watched the newly-laid million-dollar cobbles washed away in a storm. And I thought "The UK sorted sewers out more than a century ago." Funny what makes you proud!

I think Britain has great values. My grandparents escaped Nazi Germany and my best friend is an ex refugee. We should be proud- we have freedom of speech, freedom of belief, we hold, mostly, the police and government accountable, we have democracy and elections are carried out properly, we have free healthcare, we have a welfare system which is a dank sight better than most of the world, we are a country who generally values education as we have a state education system, we are in general a quite secular country and we are generally quite an accepting country in terms of equality for women, gay people, trans people, people from other cultures than our own.

We haven't got a lot of stuff perfect- for example, the welfare system which the Tories appear to want to dismantle, but the point is we HAVE one. We aren't completely accepting- not even close in terms of full equality for women, there is still a lot of homophobia, transphobia, racism and so on in society, but we are a lot better than most of the countries in the world. We are, I think, a country where in general people can get on with things without constant surveillance and we have a lot of freedoms and rights compared to most of the world. Compared to the US (where I currently live- I'm still British though!) we have less tolerance of religious extremism imo. We have, even now, a very class based society compared to other developed countries, judging on class is a negative value we have, I suppose.

I think a lot of developed countries have a very similar set of values, but we do have different bits as well, and the mix of our particular set of values is what makes them British values kind of.

"Most religions are misogynistic and / or homophobic" In your opinion.

So, the execution of gay men and women in Iran isn't homophobic? Neither is FGM and 'honour' killings? Really? What a delightful thought. How about the Anglican church and their opposition to same sex marriage? Is that not homopobic? Or the Catholic church and their historic treatment of women? How misogynistic do you need to be?

"Plus, they teach fiction as fact." Again, your opinion

So Darwin is wrong, despite the evidence and the world is around 6000 years old? That a talking snake told a woman to eat a fruit?

I think your arguments can be dismissed as ridiculous. :o

I agree we do have welfare available however successive governments seem to be in the process of removing it. People needing food banks for example.

We do have a national health service however a fair chunk of this is now run by the private sector. We have to pay for dental treatment and the eye operation my dh needs is not available on the nhs. He also has to pay for the contact lenses he needs to correct his vision. This cannot be fully corrected with glasses.

We have freedom of speech to a degree. We do have to be aware of what we say or write. As an example you can be dismissed from your job for writing "had a really bad day" on a facebook page.

Perhaps one of the things we British are good at is tolerance, we dont always agree with things that happen but will go along with it until it gets silly and then we say no.

Truegent I didn't say other schools were shit, far from it. But, as they do not self select they have a much harder job to do. If the workload was fairly shared out then surely that would be beneficial for everybody?

LumpySpacedPrincess - so why not let all schools select? On any basis? Why allow only those that charge money to do so? I think this is a freedom that all schools should enjoy.

I think every country has this to some extent. The Aussies do a lot more to buy Australian for example and are proud to support their own economy. They like to think they are all hard workers but laid back and not hung up on class. This isn't true of all but the majority accept this is a good way to be perceived by the world. I think it is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy - you put it out there and your citizens will use it as a rule stick for their behaviour. It helps with cultural identity I feel. I do also feel we lack that in UK now, so perhaps this isn't such a bad thing?

vertec, Democratic values in Britain pre-date our modern political system. They do not belong to the right or left. They are a product of centuries of thought. Parliamentary democracy, Habeas Corpus, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion...

I know, and I love, wholeheartedly support and am proud of these values. My point, two-pronged I suppose, was that a) they are not exclusive to Britain (although I do take the point that not all other western/developed nations share them) and b) this government IMO is deliberately calling them 'British values' as a piece of pro-white/Christian rhetoric, thus playing on and adding to existing feelings of resentment and fear of people and communities that don't fit under that description. THAT'S what I object to. The not-so-subtle attempt at 'divide and terrify'.

so why not let all schools select? On any basis? Why allow only those that charge money to do so? I think this is a freedom that all schools should enjoy.

How would that work - would you have an entrance exam for reception age children?

PurplyBlue - it'd be up to the school. If they make it too hard to get in, few will do so; too easy, they'll be overcrowded. Let them try things out and we, as parents, will vote with our feet.

I don't think exams for 4 yr-olds sounds particularly sensible but, like I say, it'd be up to schools to choose their own criteria.

TrueGent - In the absence of entrance exams and fees, I think it would be very difficult for schools to select on the basis of anything other than the criteria that they already do - eg special needs provision, distance from school, siblings at the school, religion.

You'd get into very dodgy territory if you started to discriminate on the basis of anything else.

(I don't think schools should be able to discriminate on the basis of religion either, btw, it's illegal to do so in just about every other public and private service).

PurplyBlue - fair enough. Like I say, my preference is for fewer regulations from the centre and to allow schools to run themselves as they see fit.

I don't like such talk of "British values" - I think it's as much a response to UKIP's perceived recent popularity as to any problems in some of Birmingham's school regarding school governors. David Cameron cannot expect such a statement to equally represent and be equally valued by "those who have come to Britain to make Britain their home" It just doesn't sound inclusive, and that's what we all need - a society where different communities are able to live peacefully alongside one another with respect and understanding.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for decent human values, but I see these as much more universal. I'd prefer them taught within "Citizenship" which could start from a younger age in schools in age appropriate ways.
Read children the beautifully illustrated simplified version of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That sort of thing.

Like I say, my preference is for fewer regulations from the centre and to allow schools to run themselves as they see fit.

Well that's fine when all's going well, but I think you need some regulation for when things fall apart!

Quite Juggling. The fact that what has happened in Birmingham has been linked to 'British Values' at this time is troubling for me.

I think you need to focus on values of equality rather than label them 'patriotically'.

One of your great talk highlight juxtapositions MNHQ, 'British values / Overpaying'.

Yes, that is certainly one. Being embarrassed to challenge people and seeing your potential embarrassment as more important than giving away money to someone who may be actively conning you.

In fact lacking the social skills to find any point along the assertiveness spectrum between 'passively and gratefully accept' and 'throw a tantrum'. Very British.

The values of equality - for boys and girls to be treat equally at school and have the freedom to grow and become unique individuals.

Maybe that does underpin British Culture. It doesn't necessarily underpin other cultures. I'm happy to be patriotic in that sense as I feet very uncomfortable about the unequal treatment the girls are getting in the Birmingham schools

Would posters be happier if schools followed the ethos behind the European human rights act? (Which incidently much of the country wants to rescind.)

"The values of equality - for boys and girls to be treat equally at school and have the freedom to grow and become unique individuals."

Or we could bring labour's every child matters agenda.