AIBU to have no idea what British values are

[PeachyParisian]

Can anyone enlighten me?
Just seen this and I'm not sure what makes a value British

www.bbc.com/news/education-27777421

Virgolia, yes, but people who don't welcome British values are not by any means all Muslim/non-white/immigrant/any or all of those. There is a strong thread of anti-Islam and anti-immigrant feeling in the media and the government and that pisses me off. I increasingly feel that immigrants are being made into scapegoats for all of the UK's problems.

That may well be, I agree, but it's an increasing problem and people trying to brush it under the carpet rather than addressing it isnt helping. Saying it's a 'small minority' doesn't help. The fact it's happening at all is the crux of the problem and it needs to be stopped. It spreads, we need to do something about it before it gets to the point where the small minority isn't so small anymore

And it completely depends where you live in regards to how much it has an impact on you.

You can, when the 'British Value' in question is to be utterly ignorant about immigration / culture and be bigoted as a result.

The problem lies with the admittedly small number of Muslim men who want to live in Oldham, Bradford, Birmingham and other towns oop north as though they are back in rural Pakistan, with the attendant cultural values, mores and attitudes of that place.

Shame you have to mention the 'oop north' thing as if its a dirty word. Don't you think your attitudes are part of the problem, rather than the solutions?

You engage with communities rather than alienating them. Its a two way process...

You engage with communities rather than alienating them. Its a two way process

Trying to engage with communities who have willingly segregated themselves can be really difficult

I have no idea what 'British values' are. On my report when I completed my PGCE placement, under the Teachers' Standard about "British values" my mentor simply wrote "EasyWhiteChocolate has not done anything to undermine British values."

OnlyLovers - How often do we hear of pictures, texts, plays, books and other media being withdrawn or in some other way censored out of a fear of "causing offence" to Muslims which of course is code for "being hacked to death" or "blown up".

More to the point, the objections usually emanate from white, middle-class liberals who get offended on behalf of anyone they can, rather than Muslims themselves.

Is this turning into an overt Muslim-bashing thread? I think I'm off.

See this is the hysterical response. No-one can discuss anything negative about muslims without that reaction. Get a grip and engage properly or don't bother at all. Funny how it's fine to have discussions about Catholics though

RedToothBrush - not a dirty word at all. I love the North and went to university in Leeds. The onus has to be on those coming in. They move towards us a lot, and we move a bit towards them.

Which means learning English, respecting women, tolerating sexual attitudes and behaviour that may be alien to them etc etc.

OnlyLovers Wed 11-Jun-14 16:21:53
Is this turning into an overt Muslim-bashing thread? I think I'm off.

Of course it is. As will the public debate on the subject. Which is why the focus needs to be on equality rather than 'British Values' with the undertone that it carries in the current political climate.

For me British values are tolerance and religious wishy-washyness.

I'm not religious but the wooly, wet liberalism of the Church of England is something I absolutely cherish.

We also value good manners and self-deprecation.

True gent, I'm not aware of books/plays etc being banned in the Uk I because they offend Muslims. Can you give us a few examples?

RedToothBrush - why the focus on equality? Not all cultural practices are equal.

I think my cultural tradition of church on Sunday a creditable one, as is my Muslim friend's visit to the mosque on Friday. His mother's desire to pin down a young girl and remove her genitals from her? Not so much.

For every Muslim who has extremist tendencies I could probably find you 2 Brits who are desperate to bring back the death penalty, would argue for prisoners to be tortured and would remove all benefits for single mothers.

There's a percentage of people in every country who are just nasty, blood thirsty shits, who given a situation of social chaos would be the ones taking part in genocides. Every culture has them.

"See this is the hysterical response. No-one can discuss anything negative about muslims without that reaction. Get a grip and engage properly or don't bother at all"

Yes, at some point there's going to have to be discussions on the equality issue. It is not going to go away, and we can't have a state of gender inequality in schools.

Lemiserableoldgimmer - I didn't say books or plays had been banned in the UK - where did I say that?

so true Virgolia.

You engage with communities rather than alienating them

Quite right - except that's not so easy when whole sections of a community wilfully isolate themselves. It is indeed a two-way process, and many would do well to remember that

Interesting that the anti-Islam / bigotry / Muslim-bashing comments have finally started; I wondered how long it would be, and in a way it's understandable since this has been used for so long to avoid debate

If the Birmingham schools situation has done nothing else, it's brought a major cultural issue to the surface and forced it to be discussed ... and about time too

It is the sexism which gets to most mumsnetters and we need to fight against wherever we see it in any groups in any schools. Children need to learn about gender equality.

I'm going to c&p my post from another thread because I'm lazy, and it seems relevant here too:

Historically in the UK I would imagine that girls and boys were separated for reasons of propriety, because it was deemed somehow 'improper' that they should mix in case they were 'tempted'.

For sexual equality reasons, we have moved on from this now, so that we learn from a young age to deal with being in an environment with the opposite sex, since that after all is the real world - we aren't in Jane Austen times any more.

If it turns out that in the Birmingham schools girls and boys are not being separated for reasons of propriety, and that they are in fact being treated equally, in accordance with education guidelines and legislation, then that's all good.

Which is why the focus needs to be on equality rather than 'British Values' with the undertone that it carries in the current political climate
^^ this

There is an interesting article on the BBC about Christian Fundamentalist Schools.

Having had experience working with people from a normally closed group I have to say that this is as bad. The values they were taught - in their own school - were not exactly in line with "British Values" to say the least.

"British values" is like everything else Gove says, he just makes it up as he goes along.

auntjane couldn't agree more...