AIBU to have no idea what British values are

[PeachyParisian]

Can anyone enlighten me?
Just seen this and I'm not sure what makes a value British

www.bbc.com/news/education-27777421

Another British value - policemen not standardly carrying guns.

Would it kill people to refer to these as 'Western, liberal democratic' values? It would stick in their jingoistic, parochial throats, though. Wouldn't it?

MrsTerryPratchett, yes, exactly. And can you imagine shiny-faced Cameron saying 'liberal'? It might choke him.

Horribly, values that I agree are liberal (and that's a good thing) are being made to sound, by the use of the word 'British' and the way he's using it, like illiberal, narrow-mindedly jingoistic values.

Corruption free politics?
Purlease ......
You can't honestly believe the crap we get fed about how a massive hoo ha is created when there's corruption? We get fed what they want us to eat and that isn't anywhere near the truth.

BTW OP... it's not the value that is exclusively British - because plenty of others share some of those values - but the specific set of values that underpins the British way of life. When the last government were proposing freedom-limiting ideas such as compulsory ID cards, DNA databases and 90 day detention without trial the objections were as much about them being 'un-British' as they were about civil liberties.

I disagree. I think western liberal values are not one and the same as British values. There are western cultures that abhore abortion, contraception and divorce. There are western cultures that frown on mothers working. There are western cultures that believe in a fundemental right to bear arms. We do not share these values.

Yanbu but it sounds like something ukip would come up with.

All joking aside, Gove and his ideas are pretty terrifying

Liberal implies access to abortion, for example. I am British and firmly believe in separation of Church and State. Does that make me French, suddenly?

There is such division in values in the UK, in Europe, in North America. I just spent a weekend with my US rellies and they believe in gun control, free healthcare and access to abortion. Are they British?

I think there are values within Britain, for sure, but these values aren't exclusively British and I dislike the phrase because it's usually short-hand for 'values we believe a significant proportion of white English protestants hold'.

That said, I think the values within Britain like social justice, equal rights for women (on paper anyway), tolerance etc are incredibly valuable and precious things.

OnlyLovers/MrsTerryPratchett Democratic values in Britain pre-date our modern political system. They do not belong to the right or left. They are a product of centuries of thought. Parliamentary democracy, Habeas Corpus, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion... These didn't just arrive via Labour Party or LibDem decree in the last 30 years, whatever they may like us to believe.

MrsTerryPratchett
Would it kill people to refer to these as 'Western, liberal democratic' values?
^^ I think I'm more comfortable with this term but I'm fully supportive of diverting votes away from UKIP even if Cameron/Gove have to spout bollocks to do so.
I have spend my entire adult life, bar a few months, outside of the UK and currently live in France. The main difference I have noticed is that attitudes tend to be more traditional (old timey Christian) and the same goes for switzerland. I have never been made to feel unwelcome but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I'm white and speak french sort of fluently.

Nobody quite knows how to queue like the Brits

Meant to say I was never made to feel unwelcome for not sharing their values!

The Russians could give us a run for our queuing money.

You probably didn't challenge anyone's values when living in France etc and were therefore welcome. That's what this boils down to - conforming with British society. We have laws showing what behaviour is strictly forbidden but we have nothing that states specifically what behaviour is encouraged or expected.

#BritishValues :o

More here

I'll add my own British value: be grateful to be governed by an unelected cabal of corrupt corporate owned career politicians only in it for what they can get, who are more than happy to let their families and friends line their pockets at our expense.

It's easier to see British core values by looking at the negatives.
We do not believe homosexuals are evil
We do not believe animals should be abused
We do not think women are property/second class
We do not think everyone owning a gun makes the country safer...
We do not think the police should be able to demand ID from us.
We do not think you should disregard the results of an election just because the bloody Tories got in

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/quiz/2014/jun/10/how-british-are-you-values-quiz-michael-gove?CMP=twt_gu

Do "British values" include "looking after those who can't look after themselves"?

Or have we lost that under New Labour the ConDems?

I know a recent social attitudes survey (which purported to show the Scots weren't in favour of leaving the Union, although they hadn't actually been asked that question - just whether or not they believed in sharing benefits/pension across a region etc and presupposed the continued existence of the UK) did show a difference: significantly more Scots than English believed in things like redistribution of income, that it was the government’s responsibility to provide a decent standard of living for older people and that it was the government’s responsibility to provide health care for the sick through the NHS

Perhaps it can roughly be boiled down to what's legal and illegal in Britain (and enforced as such)?

• ie stuff like no murdering, no torturing, no discrimination (re sex, race, sexual orientation), no beating people up because they have upset you, no driving like an arse, no military coups, no carrying a gun, etc etc.

Were a discussion of the day

For me, what makes the British, British and our country's values are not one and the same.

British things : shared sense of self deprecation, tea drinking, overuse of 'sorry' etc

Values: democracy, human rights, equality...

So does Gove want Scottish Values? (Like we might want to be part of the uk?)

Or Northern Irish, where most education is segregated?

No, he wants what he thinks of as English! Because that's his whole experience.

To repeat : he has NO input into education in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.

Thank goodness!!

I would include freedom of speech as a fundamental British value.

But these values should be those of any civilised state.

Why not put more emphasis on citizenship lessons rather than enforcing British Values?

I was about to say that Peachy - surely the emphasis should be on good citizenship (even, global citizenship ). Not Gove's implication that somehow our values are "better" than anyone else's.

But like weegiemum , I am grateful that he has no say in Scottish education (although I disagree that he only has experience of English education, given that he was educated at Robert Gordon's in Aberdeen )

The best British value to me is the willingness to look after the weakest in society. How even though we are pinched with a credit crunch and austerity, we give to food banks and volunteer to clean up after a riot. The way the funds raised by the public for tsunamis shamed the gov to up their contribution.

How even when a neighborhood is poor we have those that help their neighbours. Even the slagged off White Dee spends most of her time helping others.

I don't think it's all tea and scones, I've never known a more generous country. We even treat ill people with no legal rights to it. To me its something we should never let go.

Actually, I have thought of one. The delicious Mr. Paxman made me think about it. A sense of humour as one of our defining traits is very British, I believe. We make each other laugh, we think it is incredibly important, we will forgive a lot if someone can laugh at themselves. We laugh through adversity. Our comedy is world- leading. I think only the Australians really have this as a defining value.

RIP Rik Mayall. A true British treasure.