AIBU to have no idea what British values are

[PeachyParisian]

Can anyone enlighten me?
Just seen this and I'm not sure what makes a value British

www.bbc.com/news/education-27777421

Thanks RedToothbrush I agree with you too that it's a focus on equality - and respect and tolerance? - that's needed here, and that the desired values should not be labeled patriotically - as though they are unique to UK

I would prefer we being back "Every child matters" than have "British Values". Non British people don't have a leg to stand on if someone tries to impose on them the idea that "every child matters".

Certainly Park View failed misery if had been marked against the "Every Child Matters" criteria.

I asked DH this question yesterday and he said

"Creativity and Bloodymindedness"

Not too far off, I reckon.

i think they are making a reference to the fact that the UK is a democratic country thus the values are as such (free speech, accepting other people & encouraging people to openly celebrate their own beliefs, etc etc)

I think you will find he has highlighted them. Read the article!

'Every Child Matters' is one of those trite phrases that make people feel good about themselves and hides true motives. If every child is equally important, then by extension they are all equally unimportant as well.

Let's have some honesty - if you want to focus on the elite, say so...if you want to target the less able, say so. But don't pretend everyone is of equal merit, ability, importance and potential when that is manifestly not the case.

Again, schools should be free to choose their own priorities and parents free to support or oppose them alike.

TrueGent I think the term "British Values" is trite.

"Let's have some honesty - if you want to focus on the elite, say so...if you want to target the less able, say so. But don't pretend everyone is of equal merit, ability, importance and potential when that is manifestly not the case."

I believe that every child is of equal worth regardless of creed, colour, intelligence, disablity, sex. British law recongises this throught the equalities act. Giving additional help to chidlren with special needs or gifted and talented is not preferential treatment. Just like some people need more resouces of the NHS, there are certain children who require more educational resources. I can't see the problem where there is a clear need.

"Again, schools should be free to choose their own priorities and parents free to support or oppose them alike."

Allowing schools to choose their own priorities and parents being free to support or oppose them led to the Trojan Horse situation. Talented heads who had normal priorities were ousted or bullied out of their jobs. Governors used their freedom to treat girls appaulingly.

Every child matters might had been trite, but at least it sent a message to every one that treat girls like shit is not OK. Assessing schools against every child matters would have stopped Trojan horse in its tracks.

But don't pretend everyone is of equal merit, ability, importance and potential when that is manifestly not the case.

I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly sure that 'Every Child Matters' has nothing to do with pretending that every child is of equal ability or potential.

Of equal importance within the system, yes. Or do you think some children are 'more important' than others?

Surely many of "those who have come to Britain to make Britain their home" (especially where that has been a free choice), have done so with an appreciation of "British Values"?

Even if we don't like the phrase itself. The underlying meaning of it - a combination of identity, ways of doing things and behaving, ways of organising our society etc is a reality.

Surely many people who settle here from other countries do so because they feel they would benefit from those things. They are a big factor in making Britain what it is. And we may not be perfect but we're not that bad - else people wouldn't come here.

Surely then they are to be celebrated? Why shouldn't we have a cultural identity? And in doing so we aren't saying that no other countries have any of the individual 'values' just that this mix is the British mix.

What exactly it is, is a harder question to answer, and maybe it can't be done, though I think many people on here have done a good job.

And all the arguments on here against having one do seem to fit with the idea that part of our cultural identity is self-deprecation!

I'd go for....

Equality of opportunity, tolerance and humour, combined with 'just getting on with it'.

I love that line someone said about how we tolerate stuff until it 'just gets silly' (so British) then we say no.

And equality, particularly gender equality is clearly the big issue in the Trojan horse debate

I think LaundryFairy's creativity and bloodymindedness had it.

To that I'd add cynicism and bolshiness... all of which has made this thread more interesting...

"Or do you think some children are 'more important' than others?"

I think it depends on the question - if we're discussing provision of specialist services, then those in need of them are clearly more important than those that aren't.

Conversely, if we're talking about achievement (absolute, not relative), then those that 'achieve' more are more important than those that don't - which is why we have schools not entering every child for every exam because poor performance by some will drag down the average and may affect the school's place in league tables etc.

Similarly, if the school believes in discouraging bad behaviour then the 'usual suspects' will be more important in its efforts whereas the goody-two-shoes will be more important if the school is rewarding good behaviour.

But to say every child matters, in everything, always, is silly.

Surely many of "those who have come to Britain to make Britain their home" (especially where that has been a free choice), have done so with an appreciation of "British Values"?

Well obviously not

Can you expand, Virgolia?

Trojan Horse?
People trying to preach sharia law in London and surrounding areas?

That's hardly appreciating British values is it.

That is a very, very few, Virgolia. The vast majority of people who come to the UK are just ordinary people, not fanatics or extremists; it's not accurate to say that 'many' people coming to the UK don't appreciate British values. To look at Muslims, as Islam-connected issues are the ones you raise, only about 4% of the UK population is Muslim. I don't know what sub-percentage of this is immigrant, but obviously it's a tiny number. Immigrant Muslims who are involved in the kinds of things you mention are another, even tinier, sub-percentage.

Are we onto the extreme Islamists are immigrants shit?

There isn't an issue about disenfranchised young British born and bred men who turn to to extremism because of inequality, discrimination and ignorance due to 'British Values' then?

Being able to queue properly, that's a British Value which is important to me and being able to make a decent cup of tea and providing dunkable biscuits to match. The word dunkable infact and a decent cottage pie

sense of humour and laugh at ourselves
sense of fair play and support of the underdog
love of animals
orderly queues
freedom of speech

again subjective but my thoughts

Oh God yes, biscuits and dunking! I'm VERY proud of that.

I also love the concept of a cup of tea and a sit down. In fact, I just love that in the English language you can have a sit down.

Cornish Pasties too and a good curry. Theres a lot of edible things I value about Britain now I come to think of it

only I'm well aware of that, I'm Sikh myself and other parts of my family are muslim (yes a strange mixed bag I know!) but the fact of the matter is there are some people that are not welcoming british values. , and the fact it's infiltrating schools is very scary.

Theres something quite British about Fruit Shoots

RedToothBrush - one can't lay the problem of our own home-grown Islamic extremists at the doorstep of British Values, surely? I agree immigration is a red herring regarding this issue - after all, Sikhs and Hindus from India, Chinese and Koreans may all be immigrants but we don't appear to have many problems with them either integrating or seeking to overthrow our current way of life.

So the problem doesn't lie with Britain, its majority population or its values. The problem lies with the admittedly small number of Muslim men who want to live in Oldham, Bradford, Birmingham and other towns oop north as though they are back in rural Pakistan, with the attendant cultural values, mores and attitudes of that place.

I haven't read of many gangs of Vietnamese grooming and raping white British girls; nor of Japanese, nor Indonesians.

The thing is the culture is completely different. It's hard coming from a place that something is acceptable and the 'done' thing, then coming somewhere where it is taboo. However it should be a case of like it and abide by it, or leave. Some people however want to try and change the country to suit their previous country.