AIBU to have no idea what British values are

[PeachyParisian]

Can anyone enlighten me?
Just seen this and I'm not sure what makes a value British

www.bbc.com/news/education-27777421

British values, thinking we're superior because we colonised so much of the world in the past & have not been invaded in modern times?

I dunno, I think Americans have you beat at the arrogant "We're the best" game. Look at our movies, America is always saving the planet/world. Also in history class it's basically taught that America bailed everyone out in WW2 and that's why we won. :)

But yes, those values in the link seem to match most first world countries. They seem a bit vague to be marked as only British values.

Well judging by the thread that's going about what people from other countries notice about Britain...

Things that seem to be uniquely British are separate hot and cold water taps, salad cream, tea bags without strings and growing giant vegetables competitively.

So, um, are those British values then? Lol

Fake manners.

False modesty.

Moaning about everything but never doing anything about it.

An ability to make a simple thing very complicated for no reason at all.

Seeing yourself as superior based only on your accent and what your parents do for a living.

Making excuses for the worst behaviour because you don't want to upset the biggest manipulators.

Living in denial about inequalities.

I can think of loads more of those, not all are values just things I've observed. I'm not proud to be British.

happybubblebrain, that's a touch cynical and very British of you!

I suppose my equivalents would be:

Rudeness;

Taking pride in mediocrity;

Pulling one's punches such that the very thing that should be said or done to have an effect is euphemised or revised so as ensure nothing changes;

Loathing achievement, talent and status;

Envy;

Seeking to make us all the same when we manifestly aren't and never will be.

This has got to stop particularly in state schools which are not even religious state schools.

I agree, but if it were a religious school would it be any more acceptable? I hope not.

Anyone heard of patriotism? Isn't that a British value? It certainly was during the Wars and at many other times. There was a time when we were proud to be British/English/Welsh/Scottish.

Patriotism is what emerges and is shewn during national events like the Olympic Games, the Jubilees, Commonwealth Games, Football World / European Championships, State Funerals.

I wish someone would decide what they are, as according to the Teaching Standards for England & Wales teachers must demonstrate they're not undermining them - which is hard to do when you don't know what they are, never mind the difficulty of proving a negative.

Do you think veneration of Marmite is one of them?

CogitoErgoSometimes that's what I mean, I'm in no way perceived as a "threat" to french values; their language, food culture

I dont consider myself british,so id have to take a go at Scottish values

Downamongtherednecks sadly that's something I know only too well! DH is from a former Yugoslavic country. I went with civilised state as I though western wasn't quite accurate.
Patriotism is all well and good HappyAgain but we don't need it in the same way we did in WWII, the EU is a big, united entity and patriotism stems from seeing everything as a competition. It isn't!

British values appear to be getting hammered every weekend/bank holiday until you vomit, eating junk food, commercialism and inequality. I'd rather my child wasn't taught 'British values'.

British values appear to be getting hammered every weekend/bank holiday until you vomit, eating junk food, commercialism and inequality.

Speak for yourself

Seriously, just because there's an oikish noisy minority doesn't mean they are definitive.

scottishmummy - go on then!

I work weekends

Michael Gove often has this habit of wanting to say what lots of people are thinking, but uses the wrong words or context to articulate them.

There are excellent British traits that people abroad say are particular to British people that they admire, but I'm not sure that's the same as promoting good values and character traits in a school. Eg -

1. Being good at queueing and respecting what is fair when you're in a queue. 2) Sportsmanship and the sense of joining in a game and respecting the rules - being a good sport, participating for the sake of it, rather than just what gets you the prize. 3) Encouraging creativity. 4)Supporting the underdog. 5) Being keen on picnics and actually making them quite fun. 6) Enjoying the outdoors/fresh air. 7) Stoicism and "getting on with it" (this phrase often requires explaining to people abroad as in other languages/cultures there isn't an equivalent - or so I'm usually told)

There is some overlap, of course, with other cultures - there are other nationalities who are great at queueing or encouraging creativity.

If this is a response to the Birmingham schools Trojan Horse takeover business, I think it is where Gove backfires. Promoting values isn't going to prevent it happening, but better accountability and better support for teaching staff from the Dept of Education and the unions will. It is not possible that there were staff who didn't know what was going on - of course they did. But it seems that there was nobody or no place to which they could bring their concerns until it became too late, and that is a red flag. The Dept of Education and Cabinet also need to think seriously about where the sensitivity to all pupils' backgrounds ends and turning a learning environment into one governed by a tribal/cultural norm begins. Eg a school with 5% Muslim students offers pork-free meals to those 5% is considered sensitive, but when a school with 95% Muslim students say that pupils cannot have chess club or PE in mixed groups then the cultural sensitivity ends and something else - tribalism or whatever you call it - takes over. Perhaps the Dept of Education needs to outline what things cannot be altered. Eg away trips to the Isle of Wight or museums in Paris are ok, but away trips to Mecca are not! NB No school I know of
has ever done school trips of a religious nature. Then again, maybe it's time the D of E decided how much power school governors are allowed to have, which seems to have been the issue in these schools.

What problems can be blamed on England's CofE and RC schools??!!

Well, they select their pupils which means other schools get a larger proportion of harder to teach pupils.

Most religions are misogynistic and / or homophobic

Plus, they teach fiction as fact.

Religious belief is a personal thing and beliefs should be respected, but not taught.

Re:- queuing...not round here especially for buses, its one mad surge to get on while stopping alighting passengers getting off.

Queuing for buses, should be enforced (are there local by-laws than can be enforced) with large fines if possible

There's no queue here. It's irrelevant how long you've been waiting, it's a free for all when it finally turns up. It goes from the city centre then picks up at the hospital. By the hospital there's standing room only and people sitting down look on blankly as people with walking sticks and crutches stand Despite having MS, I give my seat up. I doubt the whole of the bus is disabled but it's rare that other people do this.

*democracy

corruption free politics - or at least a massive hooha when corruption is exposed, unlike in some countries where it is taken for granted

freedom of the press, within reason

broadly Christian based legal system (for historical reasons)

respecting people's rights to their own religion - not imposing your own views on others too much

not tying up the legal system to one religion's views (though the whole gay marriage compromises 3 way bind on CofE have rather stretched that)

not talking about money, religion or politics at dinner parties

sometimes appearing to care more about animals than children

understanding pantomimes

saying sorry when someone bumps into you*

Saying sorry when you've done nothing wrong

That seems a fair assessment. If one is British and lives in Britain I don't see what is so hard to understand about what he meant. Just because it's said by a Tory, doesn't automatically follow it's wrong (says lifetime Labour voter)

So they think it's important to teach children to understand pantomimes?

LumpySpacedPrincess - "What problems can be blamed on England's CofE and RC schools??!!"

"Well, they select their pupils which means other schools get a larger proportion of harder to teach pupils." So we should all reduce to the lowest common denominator, should we? Tell us, do you actively seek to parent other people's children, or actually focus on your own?

"Most religions are misogynistic and / or homophobic" In your opinion.

"Plus, they teach fiction as fact." Again, your opinion.

"Religious belief is a personal thing and beliefs should be respected, but not taught." And again, your opinion, presented as fact.

The envy is almost impressive - i.e. some schools are sht, therefore all schools should be made sht so those pupils/parents/teachers don't feel so bad about themselves.

As a NZer who lived in the UK, the main "value" I noticed that was different than NZ was ALWAYS go to the back of the queue, never EVER queue jump, and just because a group of people are standing in a cluster waiting for a taxi, doesn't mean that there isn't an unofficial queue system going on.

We have queues too, but they aren't such a big deal here or so enforced by passive aggressive death stares.

Nothing else struck me as different values wise

Rule of law - so much so that some areas of life are left fuzzy without legal definition because if the law's there, it will have to be acknowledged (e.g. constitution). In particular, law at least in theory trumps family - that to me is what 'corruption' usually means, that family or connections trumps law.

Militarism and aggression; adversarial legal and parliamentary systems;
free competition

Occam's Razor

Class (sometimes) trumps gender and race

Antisemitism and general cultural hugginess for Italy and Arab culture - which is what's so odd about all this

That the police should operate only within certain boundaries - they are considered to be potentially a tool of authority, not protectors and servers of the public. Hence not generally armed and not able to demand papers.

Sullen intractable obstinacy, for good and bad.

Self deprecation.