Travelling with HB abroad however teenage daughter not keen.

[MaartjeB]

How can I convince my daughter to come with HB and myself without her constantly saying : I'm not going!
We'll be going to UAE and there are some amazing places over there.
Of course there might be some negative points but I like to believe the positive points outbalance them.
Does anyone have experience of travelling with a teenage daughter?
She has her friends here etc....It's a big chance . How to make moving abroad exciting for her?

I would allow my children to do a Gap year on Moss side (and worry privately). Reading isn't quite as twee as your image suggests (well imho).
I would also say that if you are going to the UAE or Saudi you are unlikely to be locked in a cage the minute you arrive etc.

However those who defend anywhere "at all costs", as has happened here are not giving a balanced view either.

BTW I am pro-european, have worked overseas as have vast swathes of my family, although often in less "luxurious" places than the UAE.
I read the papers, but most of it does not reflect mine or my families experience of the NHS (and we are quite widespread across the UK).

Sorry I don't think you are in a position to call people sneery having read the above. The anti me brigade are far more sneery than anyone else.

Why would you allow your child to spend a year in a shithole? Are women really safe to walk around at night? I lived on Shadwell when I was a student and got chased, spat at and called names pretty much everytime I went out. I wouldn't want to live in a grotty place so I don't. I suppose I do look down on it like some people look down on rich places.

Op, please don't move your daughter for a year at the age of 14. Even if she is a straight 'A' student she will still struggle with so many changes of teachers, friends and living arrangements. It's difficult enough when students move schools in the same area during the crucial GSCE years.

YABU to even consider moving. The whole debate about UAE is less important than your child's well being, education and happiness. If you are desperate to move abroad at least wait until your DD is at university or working.

these things are repeated again and again in a sneering attempt to discredit our opinions

affixstamp, would that be similar to … no matter how often any us that actually know the UAE try to get our point across that you and a few others continue to talk about our pampered children or stating that we would have fitted in perfectly in apartheid South Africa or that we have difficulty with reading comprehension in a sneering attempt to discredit our opinions?

Sounds to me like you want to dish it out but have issues when others do the same to you.

Everyone in UAE has access to health care. There are private hospitals for those with private health care, and there are government hospitals for those without. The health care in the government hospitals is very good (I had my first child in a Gulf Country Government hospital as that was all that was on offer - it was excellent).

While I understand people expressing concerns re human rights in UAE, to call it a shithole is just wrong. Yes, women are safe, we never locked out doors or windows and could happily leave out cars unlocked too. One of our cars has keyless entry and starting - and by mistake we left it running in a mall car park, two hours later we returned to the car still being there. It is that safe.

My children are far from racist, how can they be when their friends come from India, Pakistan, the Gulf, Europe, the Antipodese ? My husband's boss is from Sri Lanka, his colleagues are Saudi, Lebanese, Qatari. Not everyone in the Gulf lives in a little Britain atmosphere - although it may seem that way if you have only holiday'd there as the hotels and malls are just a snapshot of life out there. It is a true melting pot of nationalities living together.

With regards to doing a runner because you owe money - this is no-one's fault but the borrowers. The problem is that many newbies to the Gulf want what they see everyone else has got - a car each, large expensive house and so on. For many people who have that type of the lifestyle they have lived there for many years and worked up to that standard or living. When we arrived in UAE we drove a clapped out Daewoo Racer, but ended up with three cars, all owned outright. The majority of people handle their money sensibly and don't have to do a runner due to wracking up credit.

The problem with women being sent to jail actually says more about the husband's than the local law. I have a very dear friend who ended up in jail because her husband is a complete arsehole who used sharia (ie. not his 'own' British) law against her. if he had not reported her she would not have gone to jail as the authorities tend to turn a blind eye to adultery amongst the ex-pats (if they didn't they might not have room for other 'criminals' in their prisons).

UAE and the Gulf certainly aren't perfect, but they are pretty awesome. There are huge benefits to living there, and disadvantages too. My kids aren't as close to extended family as they might be if they'd been brought up 'at home', they don't have roots, their best friends lives hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of miles away. Returning to UK can be difficult, as an ex-pat our points of reference are different, things change while you are away which can be a bit of a shock! But if I could go back I would do it all over again.

It is a difficult age to move, especially if it is just for a year. But exams nowadays are so standardised that you could, theoretically, move during GCSE years. My DD did and did fine - got A's and B's as predicted, she finished year 10 in one country and started year 11 in another. Not for everyone and I am sure I will get slated on here for it, but she did it and all has worked out fine.

A hard decision maartje - and best to look at expatwoman.com for advise - although it can get a bit stormy over there too! Good luck.

Theodorous are you aware that many people in UAE call Qatar a shithole? You must be. You certainly can't have visited many expat forums if you aren't. In fact, in our office it was referred to as "the armpit of the Middle East!" Now, bearing in mind it has competition with Saudi for that title, that's saying something... Many of my co-workers had been employed from there as it is one of the biggest xxxx employers in the area.

When we were made redundant there was the constant refrain of "well there's always xxxxx company in Qatar" to which the general response was "but qatar's a shithole." I kid you not. And yes I've been there. And worked there.

TBH I really wouldn't have walked around in the middle of the night in the Middle East. Cab yes, walked about no. Bad things do happen... People do disappear. Admittedly not usually white westerners. Mind you, much more likely to die in a traffic accident (there's one every 4 minutes in Abu Dhabi) and the driving in Qatar is even worse.

OP did I miss it or did you say which part of the ME you are considering? The countries (and even the separate emirates) are all very different. I wouldn't dream of taking a teen to Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar or Yemen for example. Perhaps not Bahrain either. Oman, Abu Dhabi and dubai are different: not ideal for teens but they would still have a decent life with enough freedom. Sharjah is... Special. And the other emirates are backwaters really, where a western teen would go mad with boredom.

I chose here over Dubai, I couldn't be doing with the expats. I am very happy in my shithole and my house and my money and my satisfaction of being away from the type of people I don't like. My definition must be different as I hated China and like it here. You won't bother me, I honestly could not be less interested in your outpouring. And I haven't been made redundant so I guess I have some advantage over you. What the hell industry makes people redundant In Dubai? Not a very bright one presumably

The problem with women being sent to jail actually says more about the husband's than the local law. I have a very dear friend who ended up in jail because her husband is a complete arsehole who used sharia (ie. not his 'own' British) law against her

So true desertmum, I have a similar story, a woman who was a friend of mine, caught on that her husband was cheating and set him (and his filipina girlfriend) up for arrest, jail time, loss of job and deportation, with I believe a lifetime ban. It's funny how people can get to like shariah law when it suits their own ends.

I also agree about the people who have to do runners when they lose their job and have a lot of debt. Everyone knows the risk they're taking, living above their means, no real job security to speak of, yet they think it won't happen to them, till it does. One couple I knew came to the UAE with very little (nothing) in the way of a safety net financially, this was around 2006-2007 when things were starting to look shaky. I advised them against renting with 4 cheques upfront, I said to stay in a serviced apartment that they could have paid monthly. But they saved about 10,000 dirhams p.a renting, and got a spacious villa instead of an apartment. I advised them to lease a cheap car, but they got a loan and bought TWO new ones! Then he lost his job, and both their cars were some of the many abandoned at the airport, covered in dust, as reported by the Gulf News at the time.

and best to look at expatwoman.com for advise - although it can get a bit stormy over there too!

Now that, lol, is the most rose-tinted-in-favour-of-Dubai post that has been on this whole thread, lol. EW, a bit stormy at times. That's like saying cars get a bit dusty in dxb at times, ha ha. Do you remember the likes of GeordieArmani, and Spongemonkey, Banana Muffin, the insane Noogs, the maid and mince drama? Such FUN!

And if you think moss side is less shitholish than Qatar then it's a real shame you got made redundant. Being so bitter and having to live like that will really eat away at you.

The problem with women being sent to jail actually says more about the husband's than the local law.

Um, no, it highlights how any woman there is at the complete mercy of her husband, because of the local law. Why the fuck would any woman put herself at risk like that?

It seems to me that it's all fine as long as you're a) not gay or b) not Jewish. Because if you are gay or Jewish, then you'd bloody well better hide who you are or face arrest/persecution. And if you're a woman, you're fine as long as you aren't raped or your husband doesn't decide he wants to do one over on you. Because then you're screwed. Oh, and it's fine as long as you're not piss poor to start with and employed on a dodgy contract that basically sells you into slavery.

So yes, I don't doubt those of you who have had a great time there. I'm sure it's a lovely life for non-gay, non-Jewish, non-destitute people, and women until they are in need of some human rights. Very much I'm Alright Jack.

Well presumably you have spent time there to know so much?

MaartjeB: I wouldn't move a 14 year old for a year. Away from her friends, away from her school, any guarantee of a place in the same school when you return?? Total disruption of her life and education -and in terms of her education possibly very detrimental, given her age and upcoming GCSEs.

My adult SIL still has issues relating to the fact that her parents uprooted her at a v similiar age and took her back to their country of origin for a year against her wishes. It wasn't just the complete fracturing of her education and social circle (friends are SO important to teenagers) but the knowledge that in the end her views just didn't count with hyer parents and they out theier own needs and wishes ahead with no heed to hers.

Her education faltered, her self esteem collapsed, she developed problems with depression.

Has your dd been taken on a visit? If you want to see if she might develop any enthuisiasm, take her on a visit. She might change her moind, dazzled by the oportunities and lifestyle on offer, but you would still need to ensure that her education continues and she can go back to her old school when you return.

You say "At the end if the day we are her parents & see has to do what we tell her." - At the end of the day you are her parents and need to act in the best interests of your children. My PIL had your attitude, forced my SIL abroad because it was an opportunity for them (one they could have delayed until she went to Uni, for example), and wrecked her life. With longstanding consequences fro the whole family. And in turn she has not played the role of loving dutiful dd in their old age that they thought she would do. She might well have done had they treated her diferently as a teenager.

TBH I really wouldn't have walked around in the middle of the night in the Middle East. Cab yes, walked about no. Bad things do happen... People do disappear. Admittedly not usually white westerners. Mind you, much more likely to die in a traffic accident (there's one every 4 minutes in Abu Dhabi) and the driving in Qatar is even worse.

I did and still would happily walk about Abu Dhabi or Dubai in the middle of the night... BUT, that's not what I wanted to say to you, I just so agree about the traffic. I couldn't possibly worry about the remoter-than-the-most-remote thing I can think of risk of getting arrested for a cuddle in a public when I know everytime I drove down the SZR I was taking quite a big risk. I saw way too many major RTAs in the Emirates.

Um, no, it highlights how any woman there is at the complete mercy of her husband, because of the local law. Why the fuck would any woman put herself at risk like that?

Annie L- NO IT DOESN’T! It highlights that any westerner/Christian/Buddhist/non-Muslim can use (abuse) Sharia law when it suits them. Read what I wrote just a few posts back about the woman I know who screwed her husband over for having an affair. Sharia law can be used/abused by anyone, male or female. And in the example given by Desertmum, it wouldn’t just have been the cheating wife who faced the courts, her man friend would have to face the consequences too, even if he wasn’t married, it’s still sex outside of marriage, which is a lesser crime than adultery, but still a crime.

Would I walk around in the middle of the night? Fuck no. Have I left my doors unlocked all night? Yes, but I have 3 dogs.
Do I know of people being mugged? Yes. Do I know of people being burgled? Yes (ask yourself why so many people put broom handles in the sliding tracks of their patio doors). Have I seen someone breaking into a car? Yes.

How long have I been here? 10 years.

actually I don't know that sex outside of marriage is^ a lesser crime than adultery, I just know they are both separate crimes.

There are plenty of gay people living in UAE, quietly getting on with their lives. They understand the rules and live within them. I'm not saying this is right, but they obviously feel happy with it. There are also many, many people living together unmarried, and are not at any serious risk of jail or being deported. The problems really only arise if they decide to have children, when they either have to get married or leave as children cannot be born out of wedlock. There are also a few Jewish people living in UAE - again quietly going about their lives. There are churches and places of worship for just about every religious affiliation you can imagine (except for a synagogue) and people are able to practice their own religion without fear of prejudice.

Fandabbydozey - when did you live in Qatar and whereabouts ? We were there for two years and loved it - but it was many years ago.

Can we do a poll of people on this thread - who has lived and worked in the Middle East, who has visited on holiday and who has never been there ? So many different views, I am interested to see where they call come from.

I have lived I. Qatar for 10 years with a few secondments I between. Also lived in Bangladesh, Texas, Kenya, and Sri Lanka. My husband is a headmaster and I am involved with LNG which is why Qatar is the best place for me to earn.

puts hand up for desertmum

10 years in GCC. Gets out next year hoo-fucking-ray!!!!!

Desert mum I disagree that the UAE is a wonderful melting pot of nationalities all getting on together. I certainly did not live in a little Britain enclave - we are a mixed race household and we have Indian relatives who also live in Dubai. There is a very obvious hierarchy of nationalities, uaually paid according to their passport, all treated in differing ways. You can't have not noticed that. It is one of the most racist places I've ever been - even my South African work colleagues were taken aback at the blatant racism there. Yes myself and my kids had friends from all over the world - there were 43 nationalities in their school. But that still doesn't change the fact that we were surrounded by people being treated differently because of their race and color. My friend is Indian heritage british with a white british husband - she could tell you a tale or two about just how equal and harmonious it all is. She's always being mistaken for (and spoken to) as if she's the maid. My boss was a South African of Indian heritage and the first thing the (local) HR director said to him when he went to sign his contract on the first day was "oh you are brown. Nobody told me. I thought you would be white." The last company I worked for had a pay and status structure with Filippinos at the bottom, then Pakistanis, then Indians, then Iranians/Lebanese then Brits/Americans. The guy who earned most was the Emirati who did the PR, but we only saw him once in a blue moon. Ironically my mixed race husband was always being mistaken for an Emirati - he does look quite Arabic - and was treated like a king in shops...

As for the runners - not all are people who decided to keep up with the jones'. My work friend who ran had been there for two years and had two cars because he lived in Dubai and worked in Abu Dhabi and his wife needed a car to do the school run. It's cheaper to buy a car out there than hire one. It's also very, very easy to buy one. He was earning a good salary. But as you know desertmum, when you lose your job you have one month left on your visa to find another job or do visa runs. And you are not allowed to have debt and no earnings. That final salary goes into your bank account marked FINAL. They then assess all your debts and if you have any, including just a small outstanding balance on your credit card, they freeze your account. He'd just used a chunk of savings to pay his advance rent. He was stuck with no job, no access to money, no quick and easy way of settling the debt, he was sick with worry. I'm not condoning his behaviour at all, but often those runners are not just lifestyle chasing morons.

I enjoyed our adventure in the Middle East but I always counsel people to be very aware of what they are getting into. Westerners can and do get in very sticky situations, often through no real fault of their own. There's a saying "it's good... Until it isn't." My brother lived there too and one of his work colleagues was thrown in jail on a totally spurious drugs allegation by a jealous work colleague. It pays to know about what happens when you scrape away some of that gloss and glamour. People can and do have very good lives out there. If you earn well you live VERY well. But you can't deny the hypocrisy and inequality that exists.

Melted, GeorgieArmani was the best friend of someone I lived in our village when we were in Cyprus! It is such a small world when you are an ex-pat! I always love the maid threads - they get seriously crazy! It's pistols at dawn stuff.

And I haven't been made redundant so I guess I have some advantage over you.

Just wow. Really! I spat my tea laughing at that one. I now know exactly the type of expat you are

It wasn't an outpouring - I was simply pointing out that one woman's shithole is another's lovely, safe haven. And God knows why you keep banging on about china.

What the hell industry makes people redundant In Dubai? Not a very bright one presumably

Ha! Really? Are you perhaps inferring that my industry is stupid? You have no idea...

How to make moving abroad exciting for her?

14 is very important in terms of schools, OP. Does the proposed move make sense for her educationally? At 14, you need to consider where she will go to school for the next four years.

A one-year contract is very short. It doesn't make sense for your daughter to move abroad if there is a possibility of moving back before two years. Does his contract cover school fees in addition to salary and travel costs? If not, could you afford the fees?

Once you have sorted out the educational options, then a visit to the country and to prospective schools would be a way to interest her.

If, after visiting, she still doesn't want to go, would you consider boarding school for her, so that you can accompany your DH without messing up her education?

I wouldn't move with a 14-year-old for a contract that is just one year. Either he gets a two-year contract that includes school fees - preferrably renewable so that GCSE and A-level years would be covered; or don't make your DD move schools.

Geordiearmani! Does anyone NOT know her!?