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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Travelling with HB abroad however teenage daughter not keen.

235 replies

MaartjeB · 02/06/2014 13:49

How can I convince my daughter to come with HB and myself without her constantly saying : I'm not going!
We'll be going to UAE and there are some amazing places over there.
Of course there might be some negative points but I like to believe the positive points outbalance them.
Does anyone have experience of travelling with a teenage daughter?
She has her friends here etc....It's a big chance . How to make moving abroad exciting for her?

OP posts:
pleaseaffixstamps · 04/06/2014 11:12

Yeah, human rights - what looney liberal nonsense!

MeltedLolly · 04/06/2014 11:13

I'm assuming everyone who lives there is able to freely access those shiny clean brand new hospitals, OldFarticus?

What, like the poor in India have access to their shiny, clean, brand new hospitals?

At least every Emirati does have access to free top notch health care, unlike India where the differences in the haves and haves not is 100x worse than in the UAE.

MeltedLolly · 04/06/2014 11:15

Human rights aren't looney liberal nonsense, but acting like the UAE is the only country in the world who abuses them is utter nonsense.

pleaseaffixstamps · 04/06/2014 11:17

The difference is that I'm not painting India as a glorious equality wonderland.

D'you know, there's a few on this thread who I'm sure would have had an absolutely marvellous time in South Africa, thirty years ago. Ignore the haters, life is simply terrific there!

MeltedLolly · 04/06/2014 11:23

The difference is that I'm not painting India as a glorious equality wonderland.

No one has said the UAE is an equality wonderland, least of all me.

you are stating that you can shield your son from the inequalities in India, have him benefit from time spent in India, despite India's massive have/have-not issues, yet refusing to believe other people are perfectly capable of doing that in the UAE too.

You don't worry your kids will come back from India with the "prince princess spoiled brat" complex, yet that's exactly what you say will happen to expat kids in the Emirates.

whatever5 · 04/06/2014 11:23

I agree with others that 14 is not a good age to move your daughter. It will be difficult from an educational perspective but also (from personal experience) I think that it can be hard to settle into a new place at that age 14. It would be easier if she was a few years younger or older.

I think that as it's only a one year contract your husband should go by himself for the first year. If his contract is extended, she may be happy to go there at 16.

pleaseaffixstamps · 04/06/2014 11:26

Read what I've actually written, MeltedLolly, not what you imagine I've written.

MeltedLolly · 04/06/2014 11:29

D'you know, there's a few on this thread who I'm sure would have had an absolutely marvellous time in South Africa, thirty years ago. Ignore the haters, life is simply terrific there!

Ok, so you have an issue with people who live in countries with have-have not issues, I could respect that, if it weren't for the fact you throw your own argument right out of the window when you're prepared to ignore it when it suits you.... like "OK, India ain't perfect, the caste system sucks, lots of discrimination happens there, it's no good there for the poor, the difference between the wealthy and the paupers is terrible, but hey.... my child can benefit from a year there so I will ignore all that because it involves me and mine, but I will continue to slag of people who lived in South Africa 30 yrs ago or people who live in the Emirates now".

If you were serious about your stance you wouldn't subject your son to a country like India that is everything the UAE is, and worse.

What you're doing right now is selectively ignoring human rights abuses when they suit you.

MeltedLolly · 04/06/2014 11:31

Read what I've actually written, MeltedLolly, not what you imagine I've written.

works both ways that. Read what I am saying, not what you think I am saying. I mean really, trying to make out like myself or others were painting the UAE as a glorious equality wonderland is just silly.

pleaseaffixstamps · 04/06/2014 11:32

Read what I've actually written, MeltedLolly, not what you imagine I've written. (ad infinitum)

MeltedLolly · 04/06/2014 11:37

I read perfectly well that you are sure you can shield your son from the negative effects of wealth inequalities in India, yet you refuse to believe others are just as capable as you are of doing that in the UAE.

pleaseaffixstamps · 04/06/2014 11:40

Whatevs. I can't help your reading comprehension. You are going to have to manage that yourself.

MeltedLolly · 04/06/2014 11:44

is that ^ kind of non-reply like... just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "nanner nanner nanner, I can't hear you, nanner nanner nanner" the way all the little girls in the playground do when things don't go their own way.

Fannydabbydozey · 04/06/2014 12:06

I took my kids off to dubai for two years and they loved it BUT they were much much younger.

Posts seem to be either wildly for Dubai and the UAE or anti. I have very mixed views about as it really isn't the Shangri la of crime free lovely living that some are saying. Some thoughts...

My kids loved it there, went to school with people from all over the world and had their horizons very firmly widened. Both think living and working abroad is a good thing and both intend to so so when they are older. So far so good. However, they also picked up some hideous racist ideas when they were out there - not from us but when most people around treat builders/labourers/maids/shop workers etc as second class citizens it gets picked up on. And workers ARE treated badly. You see it every day. Locals and expats can be horrendously entitled and behave very badly at times. There's a very definite racial hierarchy which is very obvious to everyone who lives there.

A year is not long. It can cost a lot of money to get set up there, not all contracts are featherbed ones these days so make sure that your husband is going to get school fees, an accommodation allowance, a travel allowance for the family, all healthcare for family and some kind of guarantee on the contract. School fees are paid in advance, rent is paid in advance - often yearly (certainly very rarely monthly - mine was quarterly then every four months) You need a lot of money in the first few months - deposits for all your services, deposits and fees for housing and you may find that recouping that outlay over the year is simply not financially sensible. You can live well if you earn well - if he's being offered the same money as here then it will be a struggle. You may not pay tax but there are all sorts of hidden and not so hidden extra charges. And alcohol is expensive - you need an alcohol licence which not not employers are willing to give, mine wasn't and I ended up driving an hour or more to another emirate and illegally transported my booze back to dubai via a dry emirate!

There is crime, it's just not reported very often. Burglaries happen and they happen in the compounds and apartment complexes of well off expats as well as in poorer. There are terrible instances of rape and murder, but usually these happen to workers/maids etc. again, it is just not reported much.

I would also say that I hope your relationship is strong. A move like that can be very stressful and no matter how other posters sugar coat it, you do lose rights when you live there. I know of two women (one who is a friend) who separated from their husbands, it got nasty and they lost custody of their children. One spent time in jail and was deported after her husband falsely accused her of working without his permission. Bad things can happen. And of they do happen, they happen FAST. I also have a friend who is now back home in South Africa who had to do a runner. If you take out a loan there then you must repay it and if you lose your job you can be in trouble. He had two car loans when we were all made redundant and his final salary payment wasn't enough to pay off both loans. They froze his bank account and he left in the night (he had sent his family home the night after we heard the company was closing)

I'm posting all this because you need to go to a place like the UAE with your eyes wide open. I don't think it IS a good place for teenagers and their natural need to rebel and challenge the rules. Also, I don't necessarily agree that education is better - yes you pay, but there were holes in my kid's education which the uk school found when we got back... which is not surprising as they had four hours of Arabic a week in their English curriculum school, almost as much as maths!

Go to the britishexpats Middle East forum for non blinkered, honest views about your situation and the best options. I followed advice there to a T and I'm so glad I did. Moving somewhere so culturally different (and it is, despite being so glossy and western looking, and even if you are Muslim it is still a frustrating, maddeningly experience sometimes) is a big learning curve. My friend, who still lives there's, has a saying: "you don't pay tax but they take 40% of your soul" in some respects this is a very accurate statement.

GilmoursPillow · 04/06/2014 12:20

Nice post fanny

GilmoursPillow · 04/06/2014 12:20

Or should I say, true and informative.

OldFarticus · 04/06/2014 12:38

The level of ignorance shown on this thread is embarrassing...

My local hospital doesn't smell of shit! (And I have insider knowledge on a lot of its problems.) I like universal healthcare for all. Admittedly I like the nice French hospital we went to for A and E even more.

Again, good for you. Mine does, appallingly so. It has also killed two of my close relatives. I was back in the UK last week and was appalled by the standards in the ICU/HDS in which my relative was being treated. It STANK in there. Yesterday I went to the GP back in Dubai and there were more cleaners in the waiting room than in the entire ICU of a major UK teaching hospital over a 48 hour period.

You are welcome to the NHS - it is fucked.

And the UAE provides universal healthcare for all people who are born in the UAE. That would be a popular approach in the UK too, if the recent election results are anything to go by. The consequence of this policy is that everyone enjoys a much higher standard of healthcare than the NHS can provide. Want to come and live in the UAE? Get health insurance first, or ask your employer to provide it, or don't bother coming. It's their country to rule as they see fit.

Please OldFarticus don't come back to the UK!

I have already said I will have to come back at some point, although I am not looking forward to it. But, what a paragon of maturity and enlightenment you sound, and what an excellent example you are setting to your poor children!

pleaseaffixstamps · 04/06/2014 12:42

Nice use of "everyone" there, OldFarticus. I guess low-income immigrant workers don't count as people, huh?

OldFarticus · 04/06/2014 12:48

Low income immigrant workers do not get in the country unless someone (usually the employer) is paying for their health insurance. Entirely deliberate and correct use of everyone - it just does not sit well with the ridiculous fictions that are being bandied about by some on here!

pleaseaffix - the fact that you even typed that last sentence says MUCH more about your attitide to low-income immigrant workers than it does mine.

mummytime · 04/06/2014 12:55

OldFarticus - I really hope you don't come back, because you will hate it. Anyone who has such a negative attitude to a country will fulfill their prophecy. Actually your rose tinted defence of the UAE also means you will hate the UK. Sorry but that is simple psychology.

I'm sorry you have had bad experience of the NHS. However I also know people who have had the bad experience of no healthcare.

However what really annoys me is all the personal in fighting between the "I love UAE" people and others. There are certain simple facts which the OP needs to be made aware of - such as the drawback outlined by Fannydabbydozzy above.

If someone was moving to my town, which I quite like, I would still make clear to them the drawbacks which they need to think about.

OldFarticus · 04/06/2014 13:08

Jolly good dear. If I told someone who was planning to move to your town, which you quite like, that they would be locked in a cage the minute they arrived, and that its inhabitants all have googly eyes and blue hair, would you step in and say "Er, hang on a minute....?"

I do not have a rose-tinted view of the UAE. It has its problems like everywhere else, and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise. However, some of the statements on this thread are woefully inaccurate.

And the no healthcare experience is currently being enjoyed by lots of people in the UK - or don't you read the papers? I will stick with my insurer and my shiny hospital and same-day GP appointments, thank you very much.

Theodorous · 04/06/2014 14:11

That is a fair point. I haven't been to Reading but I think of it as a ghastly place full of little semis and middle class bores. I also think I wouldn't like Moss Side or any other run down area and I have quite strong opinions about the type of people who rule the streets and stop normal people feeling safe. I can think of lots of places I don't approve of and some are in the UK. Some are not. Having established that I wouldn't feel safe in Moss Side and feel distaste towards its way of life, I wouldn't send my child on a gap year there. The gap year stuff is utterly hypocritical.

Droflove · 04/06/2014 14:27

OP I think you are taking to a cross section of people here who have and have never lived and worked abroad, many never been to Dubai and some who may have never left the country and voted UKIP. I'd head to the ex - pat threads for some advice from people who have been in your shoes and know what they are talking about. For what it's worth, I think you need to make the decision that is best for your whole family and from my own experiences, being challenged to live abroad at any age only leads to good things. She is 14, its your decision. She will be too caught up in what's in front if her to understand or know how good it could be.

pleaseaffixstamps · 04/06/2014 14:38

It doesn't seem to matter how often some of us say that we aren't middle class, we aren't suburban, we don't read the Daily Mail, and that we have, in fact, lived elsewhere (and some of us come from elsewhere) these things are repeated again and again in a sneering attempt to discredit our opinions. (Not that I think there's anything wrong with living in the suburbs or being middle-class, it's just I happen not to be those things.)

Facts don't seem to matter.

As for voting UKIP - I didn't, and I wouldn't, because they are racist assholes. Who did you vote for, Droflove?

ModernToss · 04/06/2014 14:40

The only poster who has voiced UKIP-type sentiments is OldFarticus, actually. Living abroad doesn't necessarily make you more broad-minded, clearly (and I speak as someone who has lived abroad for the last 25 years).

I think your daughter's age is problematic, OP, and I really doubt whether it's worth uprooting her for a single year.