AIBU to think that if you want Rupert and Emily to stop running you need to grab hold of them

[Morgause]

We have had a lovely day at a National Trust house. Lovely to see families out enjoying the sunshine and having picnics in the grounds. And lovely to see that most DC were behaving beautifully while still having fun.

Rupert and Emily were exceptions. We went inside the house and turned a corner to see Rupert charging through a room narrowly missing several people. The guide in the room told him he mustn't run. His dad said he had to do as he was told. Rupert shouts, "No!" and runs off pursued by Emily. Mum tells dad to stop them. Dad says she should stop them. They run back. Mum says in the most ineffectual voice I've ever heard, "Rupert and Emily you mustn't run, you could hurt yourselves." "Or someone else," remarked the guide.

Rupert and Emily run round mum in circles. Mum shouts at them to hold her hand, they won't. Dad says he'll take them out. Sadly, he doesn't.

Rupert and Emily run into the next room and crawl under the red rope sectioning off the "do not enter" area. The guide tells them to come out. They won't. Mum and dad arrive and tell them to come out. They won't. Dad steps over rope and grabs them. Sadly he lets them go again and they run off.

We decided to explore a different area of the house.

They were aged about 4 and 6. God help their teachers.

Morgause you ell Wyken you aren't smug, but not far into the thread you award yourself a parenting medal and say that your children always behaved well in public...

sorry, that was off topic but was in response to calmets post about ineffectual parenting, I was just musing.

treaclesoda - Yes I remember. Those parents thought there was no problem with their child climbing all over an expensive sculpture. I don't see that so much as ineffectual parenting, as just sheer arrogance.

I don't see how walking a 4 or 6 year old round a NT house is hard.Been doing it with my 3 from babies.No means no.Yes all kids have their off days but you then take them out pdq.

NT houses are waaaay more hands on these days when we first started doing them they weren't and my dc still didn't run riot.In actual fact I don't think I've seen any running riot so sorry no sympathy for the parents of Rupert and Emily- they should have frogmarched out.

There is a certain type of upper-middle class/professional class mother who really does believe that rules are not for her (I fall into the same class btw, so I am not being chippy). I manage a small village playground. There are two signs on the gate saying that dogs are not allowed in (nothing unusual there).

Every time in the last year I have seen a dog in the playground I have had to confront an upper-middle class/professional mother who is baffled that I should think that her dog needs to be removed from the playground.

Calm indeed all children are different - my DD could ne taken to restaurants and "adult" orientated places like galleries and museums without endless push button interactive stuff as a toddler, neither of my DSs could, so yes, that is also a good point. My DS1 at 6 is ok with these things 1:1 and can enjoy them, but if his toddler brother is there too they seem to make each other wilder...

Whether recollections are a bit misty and selective, or whether the OP had placid/ easy/ low energy/ eager to please kids, she is still, IMO, doing nothing but making herself look sour and small minded with all the judgy "I did it better, why aren't the young parents of today as good as me" threads. All children being different (even ones with the same parents) also shows it is innappropriate to give your parenting methods full credit...

YABU. Isn't a bit to dramatic to declare that these children spoilt the pleasure of others- really? I mean, do people get so het up by insignificant stuff as this to actually think, 'I can't take much more of these children skipping under the roped off area, I think I'll have to leave?!'. A minor inconvenience maybe or in actual fact slightly amusing. I am more likely to have my visit spoilt by a Mum/Dad 'shouting' threats and man handling their children- it creates tension and a stressful atmosphere to be present in. Either way, when children do this kind of thing I think it's just kids being kids. Some of them are more inclined to see what they can get away with but I don't think anything of it unless a child is being physically violent.

Equally, some NT homes I've visited did welcome the 'child' visit as they hid pretend mice in every room and the children were meant to find them and record were they had spotted them on a house map.

My DS is nearly 7 and likes to do the 'right', 'sensible' rule abiding thing but his little sister did go through a stage of running off everywhere, bolting in these places. It is just 'personality' traits and nothing to do with upbringing IMO. Although, even DS a few months back had a tantrum at a NT place as he wanted to ride on DP's shoulders longer than he did. He did a sit down protest with shouting etc. people looked etc. but I can't see it bothers me and it doesn't stop me taking him out ever again as these things sometimes happen.

I have been to a lot of NT houses, and I don't think I have ever seen a child be really badly behaved. A few screaming toddlers being carried and a toddler having a full on temper tantrum on the floor yes. But not kids running under ropes in rooms.

Golden Bear, it isn't just kids being kids. The other side of the rope they are expensive objects that the NT wants to protect.

A lot of elderly people visit NT houses who don't need tripping risks.There are a lot of valuable items,dim lighting and confined spaces.Ropes and signs are there for a reason(protection and viewing).Sorry kids ignoring said rules do spoil it for everybody else.

All NT do activities for kids now,plenty to engage.

There was no excuse and if Rupert and Emily's parents have a problem with discipline(which after 6 years they'll be aware of)they should have taken it in turns outside instead of inflicting it on and ruining the visit for everybody else and risking damage.

'Best looks of all are reserved for those of us who don't bother chasing our errant three year old, because we know she will stop when she gets to the road'

God, I hate parents live you.so irresponsible! You might know that your precious little bunny will stop at the road, but the poor drivers don't know that do they, slamming their brakes on and getting shaken up

the child climbed on a really expensive sculpture in the Tate Modern or somewhere like that

to be fair it didn't look like and expensive sculpture, or even a sculpture at all to my philistine eye

Nevertheless it was.

Where not 'were' in above.

Surely noone judges a parent trying (chasing after dc, bundling out under arm, shouting etc). Everyone has those days and most people generally have sympathy and in places where this has been me members of staff in places and the public have helped if I needed my bag picking up or a door opening. I would not hesitate to attach my ds to a dog lead as mentioned upthread.

There is a clear distinction between those trying and those who dont. I AM judgy of those because they ruin days out for others and give the tryers a bad name. I have actually cried when I have had a long awaited and saved up for afternoon out without dc in a place similar to the one mentioned here and it was spoilt by the behaviour of other people's dc.

Also there is a big difference between one parent with two kids and both parents - lots more options to control dc, distract them or take them outside.

Regarding the op specifically, they were dicks.

Exactly Riskit.

Yes somebody marching out with a flailing 4 year old under their arm would have all my sympathies, a sympathetic smile and words of "we've all been there".

The same person weakly saying "don't do that" whilst said 4 year old rampages and ignores staff gets a hoik of my judgy pants.

sunshine - The family were in a gallery of modern art. In such a setting, it was clearly a sculpture. But if the family had made a genuine mistake, you would apologise and explained you hadn't realised. The family were arrogant and thought it was fine for their children to climb over an expensive sculpture.

We only used to go to National Trust places to enjoy the grounds. Dc that age aren't into antiques really.

Some years' ago I felt embarrassed for the man I saw trying to control his two under sixes when taking them round a gallery. He looked like he was struggling not to raise his voice amidst the hushed atmosphere. The DCs looked like they were dragging their feet, the boy was saying in a loud voice "Can we go now?" and his DSis was unbeknown to the man shedding her layers of clothes.
After another five minutes of watching and judging I put down my coffee cup and went to show them how to do it better.
"Thank God Mummy's finished her lunch at last!" said DH.

The problem I have with the people who let their children into the roped off bits/don't mobile make any effort to tellw them off is that my two year old then tries to copy them and ends up upset and pointing at the other children and asking why he can't. (And then I like to do a passively aggressive 'those children are being naughty' with glare at parents.)

The looks and comments which particularly throw me are not the hostile ones so much, but the 'you poor bitch' faces. This usually happens when i think DS is having one of his 'good' days. Like the time we were out someone came up and said 'i feel so sorry for you' or when we went to a baby group and someone said 'i do hope you try to come back, there isn't one person here who didn't look at you today with total pity' or 'i can't believe you are having another baby, what if they turn out like this one?' ummm thanks, i'm just off to cry.

It shows how much my frog has been boiled tho. So i can understand how if you have dc like that your expectations get lower and lower, till they are completely out of kilter with what others expect to be acceptable. I also find myself getting irrationally angry at places which have low displays, dangerous steps etc. Thinking 'fgs why can't they make these places toddler friendly' as ds makes a beeline for them. Then i look round and see there are loads of other toddlers behaving perfectly normal around them, and i realise it really is just mine.

The worst was a baby/toddler group which met in a local gallery space and expected all the children to sit nicely, sing and behave whilst there were sculptures and ceramics everywhere. They just put a circle of bean bags in the middle and said all the kids should stay in there. DS of course was off. In the end they asked me to leave and i was just about to say how stupid a place it was and how could they expect children to behave in such an environment? when i looked round and ALL the other dc were sitting beautifully. I just mumbled an apology and left in tears.

I did award myself a medal in response to a snide remark from another poster, drinking. If that post hadn't been made no medals would have been awarded.

Golden, nowhere did I say they spoilt the enjoyment of others. I said we left. I didn't want to watch that any more.

This particular house did a children's trail with a list of objects for children to look out for. If the parents had bothered to get one of those the children may have been more engaged.

My DCs weren't perfect. But if one of them began to misbehave we did what other posters on this thread have done, warn and remove if the warning isn't heeded. They knew we meant what we said and didn't take long to learn the consequences. Both of them missed out on a few things because of bad behaviour when we were out and about and good behaviour resulted from not wanting it to happen again.

I can't believe that anyone here thinks there was anything at all acceptable in the situation I described.

Age has nothing to do with it. Yesterday we saw plenty of young and older parents with beautifully behaved children. This particular group were very much the exception. I did judge. Just as some of you are judging me. It's human nature, it's what people do.

Mrskoala - That is a really good explanation of how parents doing their best, can end up having expectations out of kilter with others.

Totally agree with Riskit above and the OP. YANBU.