AIBU to think that if you want Rupert and Emily to stop running you need to grab hold of them

[Morgause]

We have had a lovely day at a National Trust house. Lovely to see families out enjoying the sunshine and having picnics in the grounds. And lovely to see that most DC were behaving beautifully while still having fun.

Rupert and Emily were exceptions. We went inside the house and turned a corner to see Rupert charging through a room narrowly missing several people. The guide in the room told him he mustn't run. His dad said he had to do as he was told. Rupert shouts, "No!" and runs off pursued by Emily. Mum tells dad to stop them. Dad says she should stop them. They run back. Mum says in the most ineffectual voice I've ever heard, "Rupert and Emily you mustn't run, you could hurt yourselves." "Or someone else," remarked the guide.

Rupert and Emily run round mum in circles. Mum shouts at them to hold her hand, they won't. Dad says he'll take them out. Sadly, he doesn't.

Rupert and Emily run into the next room and crawl under the red rope sectioning off the "do not enter" area. The guide tells them to come out. They won't. Mum and dad arrive and tell them to come out. They won't. Dad steps over rope and grabs them. Sadly he lets them go again and they run off.

We decided to explore a different area of the house.

They were aged about 4 and 6. God help their teachers.

YANBU at all. They're doing their kids no favours with their approach either.

I don't even take my toddler to some toddler rhyme/groups because his behaviour is so uncontrollable. I have the 'teacher voice' and have commanded entire auditoriums of teens effctively with no microphone. But my toddler laughs in the face of no, and gives no shits about any punishment or repercussions. i have left in tears while other toddlers all sing/sit nicely, so fuck knows what an NT house would do to me. I'm sure i am judged constantly. I just get sick of the sound of me barking 'no'. DS has in fact started 'mocking' my no now too. He goes to do something naughty, looks up with a twinkle in his eye and says authoritatively 'nooo' then laughs and does it anyway.

So we just stay home most days as it's not worth the stress. I feel sad because poor DS is missing out on nice things like singing and playing (we recently went on holiday and i felt so guilty as he loved the kids disco and loved dancing with other children) but i can't face the dirty looks anymore.

My dc's childminder used to say, 'We were the best parents in the world...until we had ds3.'

I really liked my dc's childminder.

Mrskoala you have to remember that if someone really feels the need to 'judge' you then their approval isn't worth anything.

Having been the poor sod who has been stood in a similar attraction watching ill--behaved children wipe sticky hands on a priceless tapestry, swinging on the ropes and poles, running a crayon along a wall and watched their parents do fuck all or wail impotently after their out of control offspring completely ignore them or shoot me a look as if to say 'aren't they adorable scamps' it really is no fun. Weighing up the agro you'll get from Tristram and Cordellia's parents when you tell their little darlings not to do something or the agro you'll get from your boss when they discover the damage.

I often found myself thinking 'for god sakes stop weakly pleading with your children to behave and show them who the bloody parent is you lily livered waste of space' or in my darker moments 'if you took them outside and smacked the back of their legs they'd stop playing up.'

Children don't always behave, I get that, but A) You need to be firm and consistent and be actively trying to discipline them when they are in this sort of environment B) Engage with your kid and not spend the entire visit with the audio guide glued to your ear C) Work out whether a stuffy, dusty historical building packed with expensive and delicate things is really the best place to take a child. D) If you decide it is (and it really isn't) then take anything likely to do injury or damage or can be thrown around or will cause a sticky mess off them.

Morgause Sun 01-Jun-14 18:29:34 OH said I should give them the teacher look which, he says, could stop a tank. But I couldn't be arsed today.

Maybe those parents are also teachers, and maybe they couldn't be arsed today either.

Some kids just couldn't be arsed either.

Having said that they do sound too young to be subjected to a house tour- the gardens are for younger kids imvho.

We had two children who just seemed to get how to behave in public instinctively. That's not to say we didn't have to discipline them at times, but on the whole they were absolutely fine when we went out and we were pretty smug about it to be honest.

I always follow through with threats etc and we thought we were great parents!

Then we had our third child!

I now absolutely agree that some children are naturally harder work, no matter how you parent!

That said, I would not allow her to disrupt other people, especially in a confined space and for an activity they'd paid for.

If you have a 'lively' child then you have to take responsibility for ensuring they aren't placed in situations they (or you) can't cope with because it isn't fair on them or other people. Actually, it's not fair on you either!

Pick your battles and take your time. Age helps and they may well cope fine with it in a year or so. Right now, if they're disturbing others, take them out!

However, I do also know some people are intolerant or movement, quiet questions (in a parents ear) and other behaviours that I think are just children. There is a balance.

Running off, shouting, or generally being loud and going behind roped areas is not on but most children aren't going to stand completely still and listen attentively to the whole tour.

I just wish to add, it is because of threads like this I went through a phase were I would a weat buckets when taking my toddler fr a meal.
Any noise from her and I worried I was being judged for not whipping her out her high chair immediately and swanning out the place. People make noise. Adults and kids. I happen to find kids far less aggravating than loud, obnoxious (pissed) adults in a restruant.

I understand there are limits and I certainly have boundaries with my dd. This constant judging others kids and oarenting really doesn't help though. I can sometimes wind up agitated just because dd is being a normal little toddler in a cafe!

I get the general gist of this sentiment in regards to kids eatin out etc... But I think this mn trend is going a tad too far.

Overall, I have - thankfully- realised most kids make a little noise when out and most dont mind.

I don't get why the OP has started a smug parenting thread. Clearly that behaviour was totally inappropriate for a NT house and the should have quickly been removed. If they were out in the grounds that would be different as they are more appropriate for lively children.

I have only recently seen the inside of our local NT house. Tried It when DD was younger but there was so many free standing vases and her coordination so poor it was clear it wasn't going to end well so I took her out.

For those with lively children outside I have huge amounts of sympathy as I do for those with children misbehaving in other child friendly places. If you are going to try somewhere like a NT house then keep your children under control or get out and let them run it off outside. There is nothing smug about that, just common sense and consideration for others.

I don't think anyone is saying children can't be children, and heaven forbid we should ever go back to the idea of children should be seen but not heard.

There is a line however between children being children and being 'naughty'.

Running under ropes continually isn't on. What if they had damaged or broken something.

Venus If the parents 'couldn't be arsed' then they shouldn't take them to somewhere where they had to behave.

I'm another whose older child was easy to manage, always behaved in public, never ran away, never spoke out of turn. I used to see other parents struggling and wonder why they didn't just discipline like I did and all would be well

Then I had my second, and he is a tornado. No punishment holds any fear for him, and he often ends up bundled under an arm and physically removed. Does he care? Not one bit.

At this stage I just can't take him anywhere that he's not able to run round and burn off energy, because it only ends in tears. Usually my tears.

Wynken read the opening post. I didn't start a smug parenting thread, I started a criticism of bad parenting thread.

You say "If you are going to try somewhere like a NT house then keep your children under control or get out and let them run it off outside."

Which is exactly what I was saying in my first post.

I have a three strikes rule, the first time I say it, second time I growl it, if it gets as far as a third then its barked just before being grabbed hold of and stuffed in the car.

I do have sympathy for those who have 'lively' children. Even 'lively' children know when to behave.

Parents sometimes use the term 'lively' to excuse children's bad behaviour. If you know you have 'lively' children then don't take them to places where it may be an issue.

I am really tolerant of children and have no issues generally, however in the situation that the OP described I think I may have felt the same way that they did.

NT homes are full of expensive objects. A child going behind the curtained of area could cause expensive damage. There are some places that it is sensible not to take DCs to, unless you know they will behave.

Treacle, I'm sorry that sounds tough. But would you take him into a NT house ? By the sound of your post you very sensibly wouldn't. Which is sensible parenting through a very difficult time. I hope things improve soon

Goes to show that there's less than stellar parenting in all walks of life.

When children's behaviour,more than being annoying, is actually dangerous, then it is absolutely fair to judge.

My two are as challenging as it gets to parent. I would never have dreamt about doing something so tedious with them in the first place but running around somewhere not designed to be run around was never an option for them.

Surely at some point you think I think they might enjoy having a look around the house.. Oh shit that was a mistake.. Won't do that again in a hurry.

They were what four and six? Not that outrageous.

I've been to a NT house with kids when they were not mature enough to know how to behave: they were too young basically.

After walking down one corridor and asking one not to touch really lovely precious things I decided we'd be better off outside.

Dh and I took turns looking inside the property without the kids. I took my time

Hopefully they'll have learnt something from the trip.

Although the parents sound ineffective and the children annoying on this occassion (I agree the house was the wrong outing for them) I am always at parents of adult or older children who look back on their own parenting of toddlers with such immense self satisfaction - edited memort and rose tinted glasses anyone?

Loads of kids have tantrums, bolt or are badly behaved at times. I think most of us just feel sympathy with parents when they are dealing with badly behaved DCs. I think really ineffectual parenting though is pretty rare.

I do remember watching in fascination one time when I did see it. I was at a cinema where there was a woman with a very upper class voice and 4 children. Her kids ran absolute riot all over the cinema and totally ignored everything she said. While she sat there and asked them "please don't do that", or "x that really isn't very nice".

I actually felt sorry for her as it looked like she hadn't a clue how to control them and I did wonder if it was nannies day off. I don't think I have ever seen such ineffectual parenting before, or since.

No, I wouldn't dream of taking him inside a NT property wynken my blood runs cold at the thought BT he's only 2, I really hope he'll be a bit calmer in a couple of years

YABU. They were probably just having a bad day i've had plenty and you judged them for being bad parents after only 10 minuets.

drinkingtea - They are not necessarily rose tinted recollections. My oldest nephew was remarkably well behaved even when tiny. We had loads of big long family meals out when he was only 2 and 3 years old. He would sit there happily eating whatever was put in front of him, and happily smiling away at everyone. All children are different.

remember the thing on the news last year where the child climbed on a really expensive sculpture in the Tate Modern or somewhere like that? If I remember correctly, the parents in that case were a bit shrug shoulders about it all...