to not want to keep my 18 month old out late for MILs 60th bday

[misslaughalot]

DD is 18 months old. Her bedtime routine normally starts with a bath at 6pm and she is usually in her cot dropping off to sleep by 6.45pm.

Next week (on a weekday) is MIL's 60th birthday. At the weekend we received a text from DP's sister saying she was organising a meal at a pub not too far away (about 15 min drive) for her birthday and could we make it. She'll be booking a table for 7pm.

Am I wrong in thinking that by the time we all get there (DP's brother and family aren't the most punctual), order food, eat, have dessert, coffee etc it'll be 9.30 at the earliest by the time we leave? Meaning DD won't be down to sleep until at least 10pm.

I said to DP that DD and I wouldn't go (we've missed birthday meals for the same reason before recently) but once we replied saying it would just be DP going we then received messages asking why we couldn't keep her up a bit longer for once, it won't hurt her etc. I know I'm quite precious about keeping to her routine, but she thrives on it and generally is a good sleeper because of it.

We will be going round to see MIL on her birthday after I finish work, and will stay until they leave for the meal (so a little bit past her bedtime anyway) but I know that if I try to keep her up until 10 she'll be grouchy and grumpy and nobody wants to be eating at a pub with a grizzly child. I'll also be the one to bear the brunt of it during the night if she can't sleep properly. Plus I have to get her up at her usual time the next morning for nursery, so it's not like she'll have a chance to catch up with a lie in.

So, AIBU or not?

Its entirely up to you OP. You're her mum

But tbh I don't 'buy' that your 18 month old DD staying up late on one occasion would be so harmful for her. Or you. Its a one-off nice family occasion.

Does your rigid routine mean you can never deviate, never have an evening out with your DC, never attend occasions? Truly? I saw you said you've missed birthday meals in the past. Im more minded to think you don't particularly like your MIL and you are making a point of non-attendance. No saying that in an accusatory way, just appears that way to me.

MIL is your DH's mother - she's going to be 60, its a special occasion celebratory meal. She isn't going to be 60 again. Unless she's an absolute dragon to you, never helps out in any way or bothers to see your DD, or you'd find it difficult to be around the family, or you feel they're going to be shock/horror if your DD utters a cry then why not take part in the celebration by attending just for a little while?

Again you're her mum so its up to you. I was going to say your DP could have some input too - but you've already informed him both you and DD will not be attending anyway. Not certain if you're 100% sure about your decision but, it does seem a shame. I read a good many threads on here where MILs don't give a shit whether they see their grandkids, or not. We most of us are, or are going to be, MILs one day...

If she is a good sleeper then one late one won't hurt, it isn't going to ruin her routine. You might even find she will sleep in her buggy, mine did at the age.

I don't think YABU, my DD similarly at that age would not sleep in a buggy or anywhere else, she would be the life and soul until such time as she got overtired, grumpy, whiney and generally bad tempered, I know, I tried. Some kids are really adaptable, my nephew being one, you can take him anywhere and if he gets tired he will just crash out, other kids aren't like that.

Our PIL arranged a bday meal, we asked if it could be a late lunch/early tea so DD could come, they said no, they wanted to go for dinner, ok, fair enough, so we went. Myself and DH were the ones walking around the restaurant with her while she screamed because she was exhausted and not to mention bored, what 18 month old wants to sit in a high chair for hours (particularly when tired and grumpy/past bedtime, lunchtime would have been ok for a while), its not appropriate for her to be running around, we let her out and tried to play with her in a quieter spot of the restaurant, again, we were the ones who did this as was our child of course, so we got cold meals, couldn't sit still for 5 mins and were getting disapproving looks from other diners. I would have rather stayed home and popped round to visit at lunch (that was actually another option we suggested but PIL said no, come to dinner).

I think mostly when anyone invites you out with a small child, they would like you to be there and say to bring DC as they think that would be easier for you (i.e. no babysittier) or if it is a grandparent they do want to see their DGC their. However, when these invites come out, I don't think all people really think about the practicalities, its not their child so its not their job so I can understand why they wouldn't. Personally, I grudge paying £40 per head or whatever it works out as for a meal where I spend the whole time trying to appease a toddler, a night out is rare and I want to enjoy it.

I don't think one late night would ruin the child's routine either but that's not the point. An 18 mo will not enjoy a leisurely evening meal, neither will her parents as they'll be keeping her soothed when they could be relaxing and joining in adult conversation. All this because the grandma wants to parade the child at the meal like a trophy. Also OP has said that her DD will be seeing grandma earlier in the day, so she isn't being denied grandchild time. She is demanding something that will make her son, DIL and GDD's evening unpleasant for them. There's no need. It's a purely selfish request.

What EverythingCounts (and others) said.

It won't break her routine or do any real harm to DD. BUT chances are you'll have a grumpy DD on your hands and nobody will enjoy themselves.

There are two compromise options I can think of:

1. Take DD but bring the buggy and if DD gets tired then she can sleep in the buggy (this only works if she WILL sleep in the buggy in a restaurant - I know my DD wouldn't)

2. Give her an hour long nap at 6.30-7.30 and come to the dinner afterwards. Hopefully DD will be rested enough from the nap that she can make it happily through dinner, and then go to bed aftewards. However you might find that she's just really cross to be woken at 7.30 and so is still grumpy through dinner...

Personally in your position I'd say no to bringing DD out as it just wouldn't be fun for anyone.

Why not suggest that you all go out for a special birthday afternoon tea another day? That way your MIL gets two birthdays rather than one

I wouldn't go. I didn't go to the exact same occasion when my DS was around the same age. Only difference in circumstances was the restaurant was a 3 hour drive away! I got hassle for it but I stood my ground, it was totally forgotten about after a week or two!

Jeez, I'm feeling very sorry for the MIL here! This isn't a "purely selfish request" at all - she's asked for a birthday dinner out with her family. What a cow (?!)

Perhaps the MIL in question would be taken aback by all the hand-wringing at keeping a toddler up late as a one-off. My own mum certainly wouldn't get the need for all this stress, but perhaps there wasn't the same obsession with routine 30-odd years ago.

In our family, DS is one of the family and does what we do, within reason. Hence he comes out fir dinner, goes to art galleries, gets taken here there and everywhere...sometimes (gasp) this is beyond 7pm.

OP, it sounds like your mind is made up, but I thunk it's really sad that you can't keep your DD up for a few extra hours for something as important as a 60th birthday.

FWIW, my DS went out to a very posh restaurant indeed, in the West End, for my mum's 60th. He got grumpy at 9ish, we took him out for a walk, job done.

Not in a million years would I consider this with DD. She too has a strict bedtime routine which she thrives on. I get that people say that "oh, it won't matter for just one night" of course one night won't ruin their routine. But that's hardly the point.

The point is that the OP would be stuck in a pub with a screaming, overtired toddler which, by this time, no-one wants to be there because she's disturbing everyone and it's obvious she needs to be in bed. Meanwhile OP and her DP have a thoroughly shit time trying to keep her happy, probably won't get a chance to eat their meals in peace and end up leaving early anyway. Oh and will probably have a blazing row due to all the stress to boot.

I would try to get a babysitter, but if that's not possible I think it's entirely fair that your DP goes on his own.

Jeez, I'm feeling very sorry for the MIL here! This isn't a "purely selfish request" at all - she's asked for a birthday dinner out with her family. What a cow (?!)

Exactly! She has a special birthday-just get a babysitter! The child will be asleep and other people can cope with your child!

We are never going to square this argument.

Some of us are lucky enough to have DCs (DD1) who genuinely like late nights.

Or DCs who will put up with them, because they can't resist new people to charm (DD2)

We are always going to be sceptical about people who claim their DCs are unspeakable if their routine moves an inch. We suspect a certain lack of parental backbone.

Since in my experience if you don't ever give the DCs the idea being tired is an excuse for grump, they give up grumping. IME if you expect DCs to be grumpy, they sense it's allowed, if you ignore grumpyness it very quickly wears off.

Of course a 1000 posters will insist their DCs are grumpy what ever they do.

I don't parent their DCs and having no babysitters and long journey to GPs can only maintain that trained from birth they would be different.

Whooosh.

Great post Nocomet

I always suspect that in a huge number of these cases the DCs routine and 'grumpiness' is being used as a smokescreen for the posters themselves to avoid having to go to whatever the event is.

If OP won't do any of it the answer is even simpler-DH goes on his own. I really can't see why it is such a problem.

Wow Nocomet must be so nice to have it all sorted like that. Obviously those of us who have kids that get grumpy when tired are lesser parents than you Such arrogance! As for making it clear that grumping is not allowed, perhaps they stopped doing it because mummy didnt give a shit how they were feeling so bottled it up rather than get on your bad side. You sound a proper charmer.

OP I am not at all precious about late nights on occasion, at my 40th last year none of the kids were in bed before midnight, including the just turned 2 year old! But that was a Friday night and they had just finished for half terms to we had a few days for them to get over it.

I wouldnt totally balls up a bedtime routine on a weekday when they had to be up the next day for school/nursery. Asking the OP to do that when her DD still has a full day at nursery the next day is selfish. The only person who will suffer is the DD, she will be very tired and very grumpy.

It isnt a problem for the OP Delphinium and as for the people saying "get a babysitter" that isnt a problem either. The issue is that the ILs want the DD there with the OP isnt prepared to do for very good reasons imo.

nocomet I just told my 18 month old DS who was having a screaming, face-clawing meltdown because he was a mighty half-an-hour overdue for his nap 'grumpiness isn't an option.' It was like he didn't understand me at all! What am I doing wrong??

nocomet I just told my 18 month old DS who was having a screaming, face-clawing meltdown because he was a mighty half-an-hour overdue for his nap 'grumpiness isn't an option.' It was like he didn't understand me at all! What am I doing wrong??

Suze you didnt train him from birth you silly girl! You've missed the bus now!

Good lord are there really still people who think their DCs characters as a baby/toddler is down to their "training"

nocomet I can only hope that you have a third DC and they turn out like mine to be untrainable. That'll larn ya.

My dm had a very significant birthday last year - she arranged it to be at lunchtime, rather than the evening, as she wanted everyone to be there, be awake! And not have to be in and out trying to soothe a toddler.
He would have screamed all night with a babysitter. And com

And yy, completely different to his sibling despite being brought up the same.

Misslaughalot......Ask yourself if you would take her if it was your mums 60th.

PMSL at NoComet
I was deluded about my superior parenting too.
Tantrums were not tolerated, my perfectly-trained-from-birth DC sat colouring serenely as they waited for their food, they made polite conversation and had impeccable table manners in restaurants while other 'poorly parented' children loudly marauded round, the place.

Then I had DC3 and realised I had been a judgey twat.

He is loud, he has tantrums, he screams, he hits, I won't go on but you get the idea. The techniques that worked so well for DC 1 and 2 and are working now for DC4 just don't on DC3.
It is hard, it is embarrassing, it is exhausting physically and emotionally.
I am not saying there are bad parents, there are. I am not saying the way you respond to behaviour has no impact on your child, it does. I am saying don't be so quick to think all children are blank little canvasses that we the parents create.

Farking hell, nocomet, thanks for the parenting gospel.

Personally I like that my DD has a routine, and I like that she likes it. We still socialise, usually without her (because she's tucked up in bed), and I like that even more. I can't think of anything worse than having to deal with my overtired toddler on an evening out.

For those of you who are happy having adult conversations whilst jiggling babies, picking up rattles, wiping up food and drink, constantly swiping away knives, forks and other dangerous items and generally dealing with the detritus of a little one - good luck to you. I would hate every second. And congratulations if your DC will nap in a buggy. Mine won't - and that's fine by me too. Bedtime is for bed.

I find it interesting that most of the people who say they would never deviate from routine only have a PFB.