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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

annoyed vegan mum

259 replies

PairOfTerrors · 27/05/2014 00:44

Hi everyone

Something happened today and I am still wondering how I should have approached it. I am fully ready for people to say IWU, but would love some insight either way.

My twin DS' are in year 1 and a little boy joined at the beginning of the academic year who has been raised raw vegan (only child, single parent family.) He gets on well with DS' and I don't know the mum too well but I've heard through the grapevine that she has been under a lot of stress lately for various reasons. We got chatting a few days ago and she mentioned how she desperately just wanted a day to herself, to clear her head etc, so I offered to take her DS for today (Bank holiday) to give her some alone time.

She always gives DS his own snacks for parties etc, and she told everyone quite early on about her way of eating, just so things were clear and people didn't start asking her lots of questions. Her and DS only really eat raw, uncooked foods such as fruits, vegetables nuts and seeds. She also said they don't eat bread (I am not too clued up on raw veganism so am not 100% sure on the reasoning)

Anyhow I was out doing the food shop yesterday and noticed some yummy looking veggie burgers. DH and I are not vegetarian but I grew up with a vegetarian sister so my DM would often buy veggie options so I actually really love veggie burgers and we often have them. They came in packs of 6 so I thought I'd buy them, give one to (let's call him James) and then DH, my 2 and I could have 4 (with one leftover) for dinner. I also bought lots of nice fruit to make him a fruit salad (we are usually very boring with fruit, just apples, oranges, bananas, the occasional pear!) but I got some mangoes, pineapple and a few other things. I knew his mum would pack him a lunch but I thought, just to take the stress off a little, I'd get him a few things also.

So I phone her a couple of hours later to confirm everything was still on and she said it was and that she'd make him a lunch. I told her about what I bought and she seemed really touched and said she'd pack him some carrot sticks and hummus too (his favourite). So James comes round today and come lunch time, he has his veggie burger with a side of sweet corn, peas and some avocado, with his fruit salad for afters. My 2 were having cheese ham and salad sandwiches and a yogurt after. James takes one look at his meal, looks at my kids' sandwiches, and refuses to eat his. Now I KNOW he likes veggie burgers, it's what he seems to often have at parties and when I spoke to his mum on the phone I double checked, and I told her that it's not a problem if he doesn't like them as I'm sure DH and I could finish off the spare one out of the pack of 6 (so I really don't feel like she felt obliged to say yes he does like them just to be polite). I'm sure she'd have said "actually sorry but he's not really keen on them..." or whatever. But as I say I have definitely seen him eat them before and I was assured they would be fine.

I noticed he wasn't eating (he nibbled on the carrot sticks and avocado) so asked if he wasn't hungry. He said that he was, but could he please have a sandwich. I told him that he had his veggie burger instead etc etc and he just said he didn't want it and would rather have a sandwich. I said that I don't think his mummy would want him having a sandwich and yada yada (basically trying to convince him to eat his burger. I also asked him if there was anything he wanted instead) and he was adamant he wanted a sandwich. I tried ringing his mum to get her opinion, and perhaps she could speak to him but it went straight to voicemail. I tried twice more in the space of 30 minutes and texted her but still no reply. It all seemed strange because as I say he always has his own snacks at parties and I've never seen him complain or demand to eat what the other children are. He doesn't know any different so why now did he suddenly want some bread too? He was clearly hungry but determined he didn't want to eat his burger or even his fruit salad. At this point I'm thinking a) give him some bread, although it may piss mum off or b) let him go hungry which is firstly mean and secondly would his mum be angry and actually say something well "so he hasn't eaten all day? Could you not have just given him a little bread??"

Thinking that the latter would be worse, I caved and gave him one slice of bread which he had with his avocado and some tomato. He scoffed it down and 2 minutes later they ran off to carry on playing. Anyway fast forward to pick up time and I told his mum he had refused to eat any of his food so I gave him some bread. She immediately looked horrified, like I had told her I had murdered a kitten. She said "oh...really? Ok then...was there nothing else he could have had instead of the burger?" I told her that I had offered to make him other things (hell I even had whipped my phone out and googled "raw vegan recipes for kids!" and read off a few things but he insisted no...he wanted the bread. I told her I didn't want him going hungry and she said "well ok then, you do realise (in a sort of half laughy scoffy type voice) that that's the first time he's eaten bread??"

Now as I say I am not clued up on raw veganism. I understand it is very strict, far more so than "regular" veganism, but hell it's not like I had given him a hotdog or even a piece of cheese! It was a slice of bread..I don't mean to be disrespectful of someone else's lifestyle but I really didn't think she'd react like that and like I said earlier, I was worried that she'd be annoyed at me for letting him go hungry and actually suggest that I could have given him just a little piece. Oh and she hadn't answered her phone as it was dead and she had left her charger at work.

So they left with her pretty pissed off with me. And now I'm just wondering how in the wrong I was, or what I should have done. I know nothing can be changed now and I apologised but what would you have done? Is she right to be pissed off? Am I right to be pissed off?

OP posts:
Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 12:23

Not all diets are an eating disorder. There are reasons people choose to be RAW vegans. Ethical and nutritional and just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's an eating disorder.

Thenapoleonofcrime · 27/05/2014 12:28

I don't really get why people are saying it's hard to discipline someone else's child. It's not a discipline issue really- it's just about reiterating what the parent wanted.

No face paints- no face paints

No suncream- no suncream

No meat- no meat

No pork- no pork

No bread- no bread

I don't find it hard to say 'your mum said you weren't allowed to do XYZ so I'm not going to let you do XYZ' at all.

Often there are very real allergy issues underlying this; or religious ones; or an illness such as diabetes. Would you give a diabetic a fizzy drink if their mum expressly said no fizzy drinks as their sugar might spike? Would you give a Muslim child a ham sandwich? My dd has contact allergies- would you use suncream when I said not to?

If you are looking after another child, there's more reason not less to just be firm on what the parent wants.

I do agree Cog though that if this is just driven by food issues and not allergies it is a terrible shame, but I wouldn't be trying to tackle this by giving forbidden foods at my house.

YouTheCat · 27/05/2014 12:33

But that wasn't what the OP did. She tried her best to accommodate the child's diet. She then tried to contact the child's mother, repeatedly.

She wasn't making a stand over the child's diet.

Thenapoleonofcrime · 27/05/2014 12:37

Yes, but had she said 'sorry but I can't give you bread, your mum said no bread' then the child probably would have eaten the other food.

Even if they hadn't, it was one lunch time and the child wouldn't have starved (what everyone said on the thread about the host not offering breakfast).

It would be different if the mum hadn't said anything about bread and the OP had to make a judgement call.

If I said 'no suncream' and my mobile was off, would you just apply it?

I sympathise with the OP, she sounds lovely and made it a lovely day, but by giving a food expressly told not to give, it is unlikely the little boy will get to come back - or if he does it will be with more definite restrictions.

Sorry- but this could have been an allergy issue, who knows?

whatever5 · 27/05/2014 12:38

It depends on the age of the child though Thenapoleonofcrime. Unless there are allergy or other health issues I'm not very interested in what the parents of my children's (age 10 and 13) friends think they should or shouldn't be eating.

YouTheCat · 27/05/2014 12:44

But she did tell the child he couldn't have a sandwich over and over and he steadfastly refused to eat his food. He was there all day and the OP was concerned which is why she tried to contact the mum.

Suncream is a totally different thing. If you said don't put on suncream as she/he is allergic then obviously I wouldn't. In fact, anyone saying don't give them whatever due to an allergy and I'd stick to it like glue.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 12:47

But why does allergy out rank thick or religious beliefs?

Surely all should e respected whether you agree with them or not.

Unless it's hurting the child

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 12:51

Thick? Oh my that's a typo Blush

Ethical

Thenapoleonofcrime · 27/05/2014 12:55

Perhaps she's put them all on a raw vegan diet to help with allergies, who knows?

I just think if a parent says no something you should stick with that- I don't always launch into a long explanation of why my kids can't have something, most people seem happy to just not do the thing I've asked.

I do feel sorry for the OP though, it's clear she was in a pickle and the mum wasn't contactable, but in general, I think it is better to do what parents say.

I wouldn't let our Muslim friend's child eat a sausage at my house, even if he ate nothing else and begged me to let him try one. I wouldn't deliberately serve sausages though if I knew he was coming, though we do serve things like salami and expect him to just avoid it.

ephemeralfairy · 27/05/2014 12:56

Surely if someone else is looking after your child for any period of time you make damn sure you're contactable?? What if there is an emergency? That's what stands out for me.

I think you did fine op.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 12:58

I'm surprised people need a medical reason to not give certain things.

What's the thought process behind that? He's not Muslim or allergic so it doesn't matter Hmm

Thenapoleonofcrime · 27/05/2014 13:00

I agree, although surely we have all had a phone discharge at a critical time.

Even if the mum had been contactable though, it wouldn't have made any difference, she would have said 'no bread'. Clearly by her response on arriving she was not about to change her whole philosophy about this on this occasion. So, the Op would still have had to reiterate to the child that a sandwich wasn't on the table, so to speak.

ExBrightonBell · 27/05/2014 13:00

Squidstirfry, I know the thread has moved on but..., I don't know who Lena Dunham is, so I took the quote at face value. Even if it was a joke, the point about jokes like that is that there is a grain of truth in it. People recognise something of the world in the over exaggeration that statement makes.

Plus I generally have a sense of humour bypass, and tend not pick up on when people are joking in a text based format.

ExBrightonBell · 27/05/2014 13:01

Squidstirfry, I know the thread has moved on but..., I don't know who Lena Dunham is, so I took the quote at face value. Even if it was a joke, the point about jokes like that is that there is a grain of truth in it. People recognise something of the world in the over exaggeration that statement makes.

Plus I generally have a sense of humour bypass, and tend not pick up on when people are joking in a text based format.

Thenapoleonofcrime · 27/05/2014 13:01

Giles I agree with you, if parents ask me not to do or serve something, I don't. I'm just giving some illustrations to show that it's not that weird not to have to restrict things and put your foot down sometimes and if you really can't say no to a child, that could have serious consequences.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 13:04

I know napoleaon

:)

Your right, she would have just said no so although she should have been contactable (of course she may have been on phone or in no signal area) it wouldn't have made a difference.

Good chance that the kid was just trying his luck

Maria33 · 27/05/2014 13:05

The mother sounds like a nightmare. I wouldn't have given bread and I would have blamed the mother.

I hate this kind of fetishising of food. We live in such a confusing world where the poor and ignorant eat piles of red meat, while the rich and over-educated make houmous from sprouted chickpeas. Wtf?

whatever5 · 27/05/2014 13:12

*I'm surprised people need a medical reason to not give certain things.

What's the thought process behind that? He's not Muslim or allergic so it doesn't matter*

I wouldn't give a child anything they could not have for a medical reason because it could harm them and I don't want to be responsible for that whatever the child's age. As far as ethical and religious beliefs are concerned it depends on the age of the child. There comes a point where the child's beliefs override the parent's beliefs in my opinion.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 13:16

But that's just it, even without an allergy if a child is 8/9/11 years old and had never eaten bread or cheese, or whatever they could still react to it. Not because they are allergic but because their body hasn't digested it before.

Would you risk it just because a child in your care reached your personal designated age for being able to decide.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 27/05/2014 13:20

"Not all diets are an eating disorder"

No. But eating disorders are distressingly common, the mother here appears to be OTT anxious about something as simple as a slice of bread... a legitimate vegan food... and I would strongly suspect that she's suffering from a condition like orthorexia, eliminated foods out of fear rather than operating from some rational belief system or genuine health concern.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 13:20

It's a wonder any one risks taking their children to other people's houses (or risks having one over) because I their not being fed forbidden foods they going hungry cos it's the wrong type of homemade version of processed stuff or there aren't back up meals or parents are seeing for to decide for themselves that something's nonsense and ergo doesn't need to be followed via they don't believe in it or understand it.

whatever5 · 27/05/2014 13:22

It's highly unlikely that they would have an allergic reaction to bread or cheese just because they hadn't eaten it before Giles.

Anyway, in the (highly unlikely) event they did have a severe allergic reaction it would be better for it to happen in someone's house with an adult nearby than when out by themselves.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 13:22

But given that takes an experienced professional time to diagnose, you can't make that assumption over one play date.

I'm
Not saying your wrong by the way. You may well be spot on but adding to a parents anxiety by going against her won't help.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/05/2014 13:25

But again it's not for you to decide. You can't make out you did them a favour because an adult was present when in reality you went against a request. And people shouldn't have to leave a long list of reasons for a request to be respected.

whatever5 · 27/05/2014 13:43

But again it's not for you to decide. You can't make out you did them a favour because an adult was present when in reality you went against a request. And people shouldn't have to leave a long list of reasons for a request to be respected.

Not sure if that post was in reply to me but I'll reply anyway. No it isn't up to me decide what a child over a certain age does and doesn't eat. In my opinion it is up to the child though. I'm not interested in the parents beliefs, only the child's after they are a certain age (a bit older than the OP's children though).