annoyed vegan mum

[PairOfTerrors]

Hi everyone

Something happened today and I am still wondering how I should have approached it. I am fully ready for people to say IWU, but would love some insight either way.

My twin DS' are in year 1 and a little boy joined at the beginning of the academic year who has been raised raw vegan (only child, single parent family.) He gets on well with DS' and I don't know the mum too well but I've heard through the grapevine that she has been under a lot of stress lately for various reasons. We got chatting a few days ago and she mentioned how she desperately just wanted a day to herself, to clear her head etc, so I offered to take her DS for today (Bank holiday) to give her some alone time.

She always gives DS his own snacks for parties etc, and she told everyone quite early on about her way of eating, just so things were clear and people didn't start asking her lots of questions. Her and DS only really eat raw, uncooked foods such as fruits, vegetables nuts and seeds. She also said they don't eat bread (I am not too clued up on raw veganism so am not 100% sure on the reasoning)

Anyhow I was out doing the food shop yesterday and noticed some yummy looking veggie burgers. DH and I are not vegetarian but I grew up with a vegetarian sister so my DM would often buy veggie options so I actually really love veggie burgers and we often have them. They came in packs of 6 so I thought I'd buy them, give one to (let's call him James) and then DH, my 2 and I could have 4 (with one leftover) for dinner. I also bought lots of nice fruit to make him a fruit salad (we are usually very boring with fruit, just apples, oranges, bananas, the occasional pear!) but I got some mangoes, pineapple and a few other things. I knew his mum would pack him a lunch but I thought, just to take the stress off a little, I'd get him a few things also.

So I phone her a couple of hours later to confirm everything was still on and she said it was and that she'd make him a lunch. I told her about what I bought and she seemed really touched and said she'd pack him some carrot sticks and hummus too (his favourite). So James comes round today and come lunch time, he has his veggie burger with a side of sweet corn, peas and some avocado, with his fruit salad for afters. My 2 were having cheese ham and salad sandwiches and a yogurt after. James takes one look at his meal, looks at my kids' sandwiches, and refuses to eat his. Now I KNOW he likes veggie burgers, it's what he seems to often have at parties and when I spoke to his mum on the phone I double checked, and I told her that it's not a problem if he doesn't like them as I'm sure DH and I could finish off the spare one out of the pack of 6 (so I really don't feel like she felt obliged to say yes he does like them just to be polite). I'm sure she'd have said "actually sorry but he's not really keen on them..." or whatever. But as I say I have definitely seen him eat them before and I was assured they would be fine.

I noticed he wasn't eating (he nibbled on the carrot sticks and avocado) so asked if he wasn't hungry. He said that he was, but could he please have a sandwich. I told him that he had his veggie burger instead etc etc and he just said he didn't want it and would rather have a sandwich. I said that I don't think his mummy would want him having a sandwich and yada yada (basically trying to convince him to eat his burger. I also asked him if there was anything he wanted instead) and he was adamant he wanted a sandwich. I tried ringing his mum to get her opinion, and perhaps she could speak to him but it went straight to voicemail. I tried twice more in the space of 30 minutes and texted her but still no reply. It all seemed strange because as I say he always has his own snacks at parties and I've never seen him complain or demand to eat what the other children are. He doesn't know any different so why now did he suddenly want some bread too? He was clearly hungry but determined he didn't want to eat his burger or even his fruit salad. At this point I'm thinking a) give him some bread, although it may piss mum off or b) let him go hungry which is firstly mean and secondly would his mum be angry and actually say something well "so he hasn't eaten all day? Could you not have just given him a little bread??"

Thinking that the latter would be worse, I caved and gave him one slice of bread which he had with his avocado and some tomato. He scoffed it down and 2 minutes later they ran off to carry on playing. Anyway fast forward to pick up time and I told his mum he had refused to eat any of his food so I gave him some bread. She immediately looked horrified, like I had told her I had murdered a kitten. She said "oh...really? Ok then...was there nothing else he could have had instead of the burger?" I told her that I had offered to make him other things (hell I even had whipped my phone out and googled "raw vegan recipes for kids!" and read off a few things but he insisted no...he wanted the bread. I told her I didn't want him going hungry and she said "well ok then, you do realise (in a sort of half laughy scoffy type voice) that that's the first time he's eaten bread??"

Now as I say I am not clued up on raw veganism. I understand it is very strict, far more so than "regular" veganism, but hell it's not like I had given him a hotdog or even a piece of cheese! It was a slice of bread..I don't mean to be disrespectful of someone else's lifestyle but I really didn't think she'd react like that and like I said earlier, I was worried that she'd be annoyed at me for letting him go hungry and actually suggest that I could have given him just a little piece. Oh and she hadn't answered her phone as it was dead and she had left her charger at work.

So they left with her pretty pissed off with me. And now I'm just wondering how in the wrong I was, or what I should have done. I know nothing can be changed now and I apologised but what would you have done? Is she right to be pissed off? Am I right to be pissed off?

That sounds odd. If the boy was allowed to eat a veggie burger he is obviously not following a strict raw vegan diet anyway, unless this is some kind of very unusual veggie burger with all raw ingredients which you serve cold?

exactly exexpat! That's what I thought. I think she has a problem with gluten and she has said a few times about being gluten/wheat free. These burgers were 100% just vegetables, no added flour or anything. So perhaps it was the gluten that bothers her.

I don't get the veggie burger thing either. Surely that's not part of a raw diet?

Also confused on the burger thing, surely it's cooked and umm, therefore not raw?

exactly. baffled by it too. As I say it must be the gluten/wheat she had an issue with as I have heard her mention gluten before now.

It must be very hard on the little boy to understand why he can't have things that the vast majority of children would have.

Maybe if you have him over again, you could try serving everyone the same food, so that the issue of wanting what others have won't arise. Although perhaps she won't ask again.

I do think that given her very specific diet, she should have explained in more detail what he can/can't eat with a quick summary of why. Having said that, if someone made an honest mistake with my DS I wouldn't hold it against them.

Yadnbu!!!, you went out of your way by miles to help this woman out and her child. She should be bloody grateful and thanked you for what you did! I would point everything in your post to her as well if she tries to be short anyfurther.

It sounds like a no-carb diet.

If there is a particular intolerance, then I would expect the parent to let me know. We regularly have a couple of children for tea who must not have (in one case) peanuts and (in another case) dairy. Parents of both have kept me in the loop about this, just as I tell anyone who invites me for a meal that shellfish will result in me locking myself in the loo for several hours. She hasn't told you of any health reason to avoid certain foods, only philosophical ones.

You described the menu pretty clearly, she agreed it. She then became uncontactable. This may not have been her fault, but the situation was you were in charge of a tired and hungry six year old without any back-up. You had to make a judgement, and you made it. I think I might well have made a similar one in similar circumstances.

Unfortunately several vegans I know have shown strong signs of what I call 'born again' syndrome, and are not reasonable on the subject. I fear your son's new friend's mum may fall into this category.

Yeah, YWBU. But sound like you were trying to help to be fair.

If his mum says no bread, then that means no bread. It's sadly her right to give her kid such a restrictive diet.

I couldn't have coped with the puppy dog eyes at the table. YANBU. You apologised. It was a slice of bread not a lamb chop.

They can't be raw vegans if they were happy with the veggie burger. Slightly surprised that she was ok with a shop- bought veggie burger (thinks to self haven't had a veggie burger in ages) so possibly (a) they're not as strict as you think or (b) mum is a bit confused about what they are.

I can't see what else you could do. The child was hungry but wouldn't eat any of the approved foods.

I don't know anything about food allergies but I suppose if he's never eaten bread before he might have turned out to be intolerant of it.

I'll get flamed for this but I do feel slightly sorry for the poor child with his "favourite carrot sticks and houmous"

I wonder if it really is the first time he's had bread? Given many children's general unwillingness to eat new food - the "I don't like that- how do you know, you've never tried it" syndrome I wonder if he's been sneaking in the odd sandwich at other houses.

I would have given all the children the same meal to prevent the exact scenario you ended up in.

Children always want what someone else has got - it was completely predictable and I'm surprised it didn't cross your mind when you served up different meals. If they'd all had the same it wouldn't have happened.
His mum usually controls his diet and he pushed you because she wasn't there.

I dont know much about vegans or veganism but some breads are made with dairy products and animal by products/derivatives. That could possibly be why

Caitlin17 exactly (re: veggie burgers) which is what makes me think the gluten must have been the issue. She has never mentioned anything about him being celiac though. QuizzicalCat that's a good point and in hindsight perhaps I should have done this. I suppose it ignorantly didn't occur to me that he would want the other food as I have seen him happy at parties munching away on his own snacks. My mum was always strict with what we were allowed to drink (one glass of juice with breakfast, other than that just water.) It was like this my whole life so i never felt left out or like I wanted what the other kids were drinking..it was just normal to me to drink water!

Lanabelle I found this out later when i googled it, I had no idea! I do feel bad, but I just don't know what my alternative was.

It might have been simpler to give your 2 the same unless your 2 wouldn't eat veggie burgers but as you were planning on having them for dinner I assume that's not the case.

Having been a strict vegan in the past, albeit not a raw vegan, I do understand how horrified she was to know her son had eaten an untouchable item. I also know that these very strict diets can be totally controlling and border on obsessive. From what you have said, you have been a brilliant, kind friend who tried her upmost to do the best for her son. She will find if very hard to have friends who can look after her son unless they too follow the same dietary lifestyle choice. I think that the son has not chosen this lifestyle but had to imposed upon him and he is dying to try out the various foodstuffs which his peers are eating. I really don't think there is anything more you could have done and I know that many people would not have made half the effort that you did so give yourself a pat on the back and put this down to experience. If she ever wants you to look after him again then perhaps keep it fairly brief so you only gave to do a few snacks rather than a meal which could be more complex.

I'm a bit surprised you didn't choose today to serve your children the veggie burgers? Our did they not want them?

Anyway you did your best when you were in charge and she was uncontactable. It would be very petty of her to hold it against you when you were doing her a favour. Is not like you force fed him bacon.

As family member owns a raw vegan restaurant. Raw doesn't mean not cooked, it means that the food hasn't been heated past a certain temperature (can't remember what it is but it's the point just before the heat begins to breakdown or alter the nutrients in the food).

The vegetable burger is not raw vegan and isn't great, but bread is baaad. It goes through so many processes from its original wheat form and is baked at a high temperature for a long time, it's the antithesis of raw.

And to the pp who said it sounds like a no carb diet - houmous contains carbs.

Not everyone who avoids gluten is genuinely coeliac.

It's the new devil food to avoid amongst faddy eaters.

There is actually a word for people whose diet is so regimented that it becomes disordered- orthorexia- and she sounds as tho she falls into that category to me.

I don't think you need to feel bad.

As for bread containing animal products I've just Googled Hovis who say their standard bread is suitable for vegetarians and vegans although obviously products like crumpets, pancakes, muffins etc will have animal products.

I think you did really well under the circumstances. You did your best and tried to help.

If there's any blame to be apportioned, it should go to the Mum who honestly should have been contactable as her child has such an unusual diet. She's given you mixed messages with condoning the cooked veggie burger which may well have had things in it that didn't conform to her dietary rules, and as she didn't also expressly forbid bread, I think you were justified in giving him some when the poor kid was so desperate to have something the others were eating.

So quizzical from what you're saying the mother is not a raw vegan otherwise a shop bought veggie burger cooked at the temperature most people would cook a shop bought veggie burger would also be verboten. But OP was told it was ok.

In hindsight, yes I should have just given my 2 the burgers too. As I say I have seen him eat his snacks before at parties etc without kicking up a fuss, but I suppose being in more of a closed environment with just me and DS, he felt he could challenge me more. To be honest I'm sure my DS would have happily had the burgers too..silly me!

Thanks Runesigil and heyday. I did try and do what I could and not just serve him a boring bowl of broccoli and carrots! lol. Oopsie well I guess I know for the future (not that I think he will be coming around any time again soon....)

I think the mum was giving you very confused messages. I like shop bought veggie burgers but to me that says " not fanatical about anything just avoiding meat"

A shop bought veggie burger might for example be equally abhorrent to a committed vegan as it would be to the sort of meat eater who makes her own burgers out of locally sourced organic beef (from a cow she'd been personally acquainted with)