To think this is starting to look like UKIP revolution

[FidelineandFumblin]

and apparently similar results across Europe.

Front Nationale have done particularly well in France. Guardian is reporting similar successes for far right parties in Greece and Denmark.

I am unnerved.

'I think you've read too much into that. '

Yes you are right. I don't know much about the South West and who they vote for, but I did notice that they only had 1 LibDem MEP last time, so they couldn't have really been such big fans of the LibDems.

And we'd be particularly fucked if they finalise the EU/US FTA. Big if, though.

"I think leaving the EU is a defensible position as long as there's a plan for Day 2"

You are right. I don't know what the plan is. But if anyone can come up with a plan, UKIP can.

Why haven't they, then? Farage doesn't sound like he's interested in day 2, or 3, or beyond.

It's a fascinating area but people talking as if it's an easy fix or anything but massively complicated frustrate me hugely. It's dishonest politics, no matter who does it.

Fortunately, being a filthy immigrant who came as I was in a shortage area, I have options for after any epic cluster duck caused by blinkered ideology, over-optimistic predictions or piss poor planning. I could always go back to another country with a points system, where immigration isn't an issue at all.

That would be cluster fuck, obviously. Puritanical iphone.

Jassy, the civil service wil sort it all out. They know what they are doing. Farage is only the conductor of teh orchestra, the civil service are the musicians.

With the results here, France, elsewhere in Europe and Putin's antics on top, I just wonder where this is going to end . I am more than a little bit fearful for the future, to be honest.

Do you honestly believe that? Then you've more faith in the civil service than I do. The civil service is there to implement govt policy and the need political leadership, especially in foreign negotiations.

Also, what if the civil service turns around and says this is a terrible, unworkable idea that we feel unable to implement?

I think it's hugely complicated, claig. In part because of the size of the regions. It makes it difficult to read into what might happen in a GE because they encompass so many areas. Not to metion the voting system is completely different.

The other thing that makes it difficult to read is that in 2009 we had 17 parties standing (or 16+Katie Hopkins). This year only 8. Most of those were single issue or centre right/right/euro skeptic. It fragmented the centre right vote a lot and that vote share has to go somewhere. UKIP I think might have been the natural choice for them.

To those who say UKIP is not a far right party.

This is from their webapage
"• Prioritise social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally"

What does "born locally mean" and at what point do they move on to saying that a British citizen is only entitled to some benefits if their parents and grandparents are British or "local" whatever that means.

Control immigration by all means if you must; debate whether we stay in the EU.; make it more difficult to achieve British status; make some things only available to British Citizens. All of this I don't necessarily agree with but it is something I can accept debate on. However once someone is a British citizen and you start differentiating on the sort of of British citizen they are based on where their parents and even granparents come from !! Well that frankly scares the sh**t out of me. I don't give a monkeys about their other "sensible" policies

'Also, what if the civil service turns around and says this is a terrible, unworkable idea that we feel unable to implement?'

I don't know how it works, but I am sure they do that all the time, particularly with some of New Labour's older policies.

Well, New Labour had policies, which was a starting point. I don't count 'cross fingers, hope for best' as a policy, tbh, and that's my issue with UKIP. What policies they do have are half baked and don't acknowledge that the world is more complicated than people-pleasing sound bites allow for.

I don't count 'cross fingers, hope for best' as a policy, tbh, and that's my issue with UKIP'

You are right. but I think the ship of state sails OK without a New Labour Captain Pugwash. I think it is in the capable hands of experts.

I don't think Gordon or Alan Johnson or Peter Hain or David Blunkett or Ed Brawls are really experts in all that much, and I think they rely on advice and help from civil servants etc

I think UKIP will come up with policies and they will get advice from experts.

I don't count 'cross fingers, hope for best' as a policy, tbh, and that's my issue with UKIP

So fussy Jassy so demanding

But I think the ship of state sails OK without a New Labour Captain Pugwash

Claig where do you learn to speak this fluent UKIPeese? Is there a correspendence course?

Alas, there is no correspondence course. But for a large fee, I am available on a consultancy basis.

But for a large fee, I am available on a consultancy basis.

I'll bear it in mind

, claig. But isn't relying on a civil service that isn't democratically accountable for policy making as well as implanting inherently undemocratic?

Do you think we really live in a democracy?
With sofa government and all the rest of it. People have had enough. They voted for what the elite called "fruitcakes". People preferred "fruitcakes" to them. They sent the elite a message. We know they will spin us, but maybe now they will start to listen to us too.

The "fruitcakes" will give us proportional representation and local referenda on issues that gain more than 5% support. That is democracy and that is why they were all against the "fruitcakes" and the people.

I don't think Gordon or Alan Johnson or Peter Hain or David Blunkett or Ed Brawls are really experts in all that much

Whatever you think of him, could you manage to get Ed Balls' name right claig instead of trying (and failing) to be amusing?

And I still can't get over your blind faith that the Civil Service will implement these as yet undefined policies you speak of.

Sorry, typing on a tablet, hit the wrong keys by mistake.

Yeah, but if one of your beefs is lack of democracy now, handing the keys to the civil service isn't going to make it more democratic - quite the opposite.

Ditto all the issues that either need a national approach (eg rail infrastructure, defence, welfare) or that are fundamentally important but don't spark local referenda?

How much will these referenda cost, btw? What if they demand things the national purse can't afford?

Sooty, my main issue isn't just that they'll have to implement them, they'll apparently come up with them within a broad, poorly expressed, woolly policy pronouncements.

I may be pleasantly surprised by the UKIP manifesto when it appears, who knows. It couldn't be worse than their website for depth of policy.

'Ditto all the issues that either need a national approach'

Yes, these are all of the issues that still need to be resolved in the people's revolution. But at least we will get a bit more democracy than was granted us before.

'How much will these referenda cost, btw? What if they demand things the national purse can't afford?'

What price democracy? If we run out of money, we can cut the MPs' expenses and salaries back. This is the people's revolution. This is an earthquake. This has not happened for over 100 years apparently.