to think that MN is not a good place to get relationship advice?

[InForAFlaming]

I've name changed for this as I am so obviously going to get flamed.
I've had a couple of threads on the relationship boards, as well as reading quite a lot. I've been really concerned and appalled about how quick people are to denounce someones relationship as doomed and suggest they leave, especially as there are children involved. I realize many of the people giving advice have been in very difficult or abusive situations, and I don't want to undermine the importance of these experiences, but there does seem to be a very quick assumption that everyone's husband is like this, therefore LTB.
When people post, you can only get a very vague sense of what's going on (I'm excluding the obviously awful ones where someone is being hurt or taken advantage of blatantly), and you only hear one side of the story. So how can people be so adamant in their advice?
In reality:
Good people (men and women) do bad things sometimes.
In the lifetime of a marriage/relationship most people (men and women) will at some point say something hurtful, behave unreasonably for a period of time, other things which are not nice.
And I get the impression that on MN all men are supposed to be angels all of the time, as well as being patient and understanding when women are less than angelic due to pregnancy, motherhood, work related stress etc.
Am I on my own here?

Yanbu

Of course it's not the same thing and, when it's clear two people have a lot of affection for each other but life has got in the way, I'm the first to suggest relationship counselling. However, when there is no affection or worse, 'working on it' can end up a very one-sided and demeaning exercise.

I think the Relationships board is an excellent place for support if you are in an abusive relationship or trying to cope with a partner's infidelity. I do agree with others though that it's perhaps less ideal for thinking through the ordinary ups and downs of a broadly happy relationship. Certainly I wouldn't post about a row with DH in Relationships as I don't really want a load of strangers calling him names in the interests of 'supporting' me.

OTOH though most people in broadly happy relationships arguably don't feel the need to discuss arguments with their spouses on an internet forum. So perhaps the expectation on the Relationships board that 'there is probably more to this' is actually more accurate than it is morbid.

The one thing I don't really like about the board though is that I feel it's deeply sexist. The same problem often gets a totally different response if posted by a man or derailed by some turn of phrase by the OP that people don't like.

Yabvvu, some of these Mumsnetters are in clearly abusive relationships, they have been emotionally and physically abused that they have list touch with reality and have list all self confidence and self worth. They clearly need to get out, a lot of Mumsnetters have been through it and come ou the other end. They can help support tge person, give them the confidence to leave and get appropriate help.

I don't get why the Relationships board should be held to any higher standard than any other. Wherever you post you will get a range of opinions, some of which you will find more helpful than others.

For example if you post about sleep problems with your baby you will get a range of responses from AP to controlled crying. Everyone will post about their own experiences and their own opinions. Relationships is no different. It is an area where everyone is likely to chip in as pretty much everyone has some experience/insight. Some people will leap to judgement, some will be more circumspect, some may be a little evangelical because they feel they have seen the light. This is all pretty normal I would have thought, and really not different to real life conversations, the only real difference is the volume and range.

I have to say if I had been on a thread about something and got one really good piece of advice I'd judge it a success regardless of whether I disagreed with the other 90% (for example that's how I got tutoring for ds, I really couldn't care less about all the side conversations that went on in that thread and many others as ds can read now).

For me if I wanted to discuss the lingering affects of dh's infidelity this is probably the only place I could talk about it as in RL I don't know anyone who has gone through an affair and rebuilt successfully. All my friends and acquaintances at the time thought I was nuts, as would probably 90% of posters here, but I'd be interested in the 10% and find them. Which is good.

Can you point out which of 'these' mumsnetters you mean areo are they on this thread?

I do think that some posts are written forgetting that men and women are often very different.

I also think that some women are told that its rotten for the man to withhold sex, but that men who want / need sex should be more considerate even if it's two years or more after the baby. that -is- double standards.

Where a woman has hit a man, as opposed to a man hitting a women, I did see a lot of condemnatory posts as well as some that were frankly a bit oversympathetic.

But the LTB thing, well yes sometimes it's a bit triggerhappy. But some of the women here are very experienced, far too experienced :( I think that sometimes people who've walked that path pick up on things that people who have always had happier and healthier relationship simply don't see for what they are, straws in the wind that indicate a bloody big shit-covered haystack.

Don't forget that we usually chose our friends because we have similar believes, culture, way of thinking, experiences, political views etc. So when you talk things with close friends you might not get any different view. Thats the beauty of the forum imo.

I occasionally read the Relationships forum although I'm not currently in a relationship, nor have my previous relationships been anything like some are experiencing who ask for help.

I agree, if a DH is too lazy to carry his plate from table to dishwasher, LTB is completely OTT and some posters do suggest LTB early in a thread sometimes.

On the other hand, I've read threads where the woman is clearly being abused, her husband has stripped any self confidence she may have had and she can't see a way out of her situation - LTB seems an impossible dream to her. I remember one such situation which went on for three or four threads and the OP received huge support and advice, which gave her the strength to leave her husband and get herself and the children to safety. I very much doubt that she could have even taken the first step without the people supporting her on those threads.

There are many helpful posters but I would specifically like to mention Cogito - her posts are always measured and sensible and helpful and I think MN would be a poorer place without her.

I agree with silveroldie2's post, especially the appreciation for Cogito. There are other superb contributors to Relationships threads, and the minority of unhelpful contributors is, in my opinion, increasingly outnumbered. If that trend continues, then that Topic may become a good one.

Softly I cannot be specific as I have been on here for many years and seen a range of posters write about what is clearly an abusive relationship. Yes the main advice is obviously to LTB, but there are some good advice and sign posting from people who have been in that situation.

There was one recently of a lady on here who was living with her h and her ds5. He held the purse strings and would give her a minimum amount per month fir food, clothing etc. h was in a very good job and would go away at weekends, eating at fine restaurants, when op and her ds would be going hungry as tgey did not have any money for food. He would blackmail her to stay in that relationship. Of course the response was LTB, and some very good advice from those who had been in similar situations.

I have observed posters who come on and moan and when It's pointed out that their behaviour is codependent and they have a choice to leave, they disappear or defensively backtrack.

I think it's a great place for relationship advice and support. Fantastic.

But I think some martyrs posters just want to hear 'aw poor you what a star you are for putting up with it' and not the cold hard choices they need to start making.

A lot of wise and kind posters there. We are lucky to have them all

Yabu. I unserstand exactly what you mean but mn boards are mot representative of all relationships. It is self selective because more people in troubled relationships will post so Ltb or something similar will be a more common response

The Relationships board is not about coming on here & asking for cast iron always correct advice which you will take to heart & LTB immediately. Its about having a range of opinions available to you that you wouldn't get in RL.

Its about being able to reach out to someone, no matter what time of day or night & someone will be there to listen to you.

Its about having somebody there to listen to your side when nobody in RL can or will.

Its about being able to post your darkest fears in anonymity & people will be honest & say what they see, even if its unpalatable or something you know is true, deep down.

Its about not being surrounded by yes men & being able to ask for different opinions.

Its about not being able to see a way out & other posters pointing you in the direction to get help.

Its about having been on the end of abuse for so long you have sight of what normal is & need people to point out things that are glaringly not normal that a poster has come to accept as part of everyday life.

Many women from all walks of life find themselves in similar situation & its helpful to be able to talk to those people who have come out the other side. Many women are needlessly ashamed or guilty of their situation & the Relationships board helps the OP make sense of the behaviour of themselves & others.

Yes OP you make a good point.

Partners' can go through periods have times when they behave badly and LTB advice is not always realistic or necessary. People do work things out.

And I can't say that I see a whole wide range of opinions on there. There seems to be a tendency for posters' to fall behind the stronger personalities - in their advice giving.

Not just in relationships but you do tend to see the tide going in one direction, then someone posts a different opinion and then the tide turns and there is a more balanced opinion. Maybe it is because sometimes people are scared to post what they think may be a controversial post, until they see someone else with the same opinion.
Conversely, there are posters that will argue just for the sake of it. They will argue black is white just for the argument.

YANBU

I've often thought the relationships advice is very helpful and insightful. BUT it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Quite often, the louder voices on the threads are not that balanced and are clearly involved for the entertainment of seeing what's going to happen next. The OP is required to 'report back' and tell everyone what happened when she followed their advice. Then posters dissect the advice, often cynically. Thing is, this MAY be helpful to people in genuinely abusive relationships. However, people posting on the relationships board are not necessarily in this boat at all, and having a chorus of interested spectators waving their one-size-fits-all red flags is unhelpful for situations that aren't extreme. It shouldn't be justified by saying that OPs in relationships are there because they have a problem. They are and they aren't. Lots of people post in relationships forums all over the place and all they want is a space to talk. Life can be aggravating. Relationships can feel exhausting and sometimes hard without their being anything 'wrong' as such. The Mumsnet relationships forum is different because it seems to be populated by posters who have been abused and read OPs looking for the signs - some of which may actually be present in normal relationships too, which nobody seems to have thought of. If you need to leave, great. You'll get loads of advice. If you just want to improve your relationship, there is precious little support or expertise, perhaps because the posters previously in abusive relationships didn't find that constructive. I have actually seen people say that 'counselling doesn't work'. Relationships seem disposable to many of the posters, regardless of whether or not abuse is present. If that's challenged, these posters always turn out to be happily married, which is their justification for encouraging others to throw away what they have. There are never any tips for how that happy marriage happened - it just seems to have dropped out of the sky (which rarely happens in real life). I suppose giving advice on working on a marriage would be much, much harder.

I've said this before, but there should be an 'am I being abused/I want to leave' subsection of the relationships board. Then all the LTB can pile in there and we can see what's left.

posters often dissect what has been said by the other partner, often cynically

If that's challenged, these posters always turn out to be happily married, which is their justification for encouraging others to throw away what they have. There are never any tips for how that happy marriage happened - it just seems to have dropped out of the sky (which rarely happens in real life). I suppose giving advice on working on a marriage would be much, much harder.

Because telling people to: 'choose a life partner they're fundamentally compatible with' is a). stating the obvious, and b). locking the gate after the horse has bolted for many, so fairly useless as a piece of actual advice.

Working on a relationship is always necessary to a certain extent, but nowhere near as much as some people would have you believe.

If you're fundamentally compatible (i.e. you both like each other, want the best for each other, and are equally invested in the relationship), then you don't need to work on the relationship, per se. You just need to work through any issues that life throws at you. Which is different.

People like me who have been in bad relationships, have also been in bad relationships. The best relationship advice is to choose the right person.

And i agree, in a good relationship you really shouldn't have to work at it that much.

I strongly disagree calmet and Japanese. I suspect most qualified and experienced relationship experts would also disagree. People are always going to be really different, regardless of compatibility. Relationships take work. Putting someone else first takes work. Love takes effort. This, right here, is the problem with the relationships board.

I think if you spend quite a lot of time on the relationships board then you'll see a variety of advice from date nights to counselling to LTB. It's by no means a one-size fits all approach. The only time I've read advice saying 'counselling doesn't work' is in relation to couples' counselling in abusive relationships and that is the advice provided by Relate. One in four people who leave an abusive relationship won't be believed by their friends and family (another stat from Relate).

Imo that makes the boards invaluable because they provide a space where they can be listened to and believed.

Plus the relationship threads are usually great at suggesting further reading to help OP's reach their own decisions about their relationships.

And for every one thread on AIBU criticising the relationships board there are usually at least three running at any one time on the relationships board thanking people for their support and advice. I don't think that's a bad ratio.

Posters aren't indigenous to any one board; some post across several. I've seen some good advice given on AIBU where there are many more posters and poor advice given on Relationships board when it's very much a 'repeat by rote' even if it doesn't fit. It depends who is posting it, not where they're posting.

I think that AIBU, because of its high profile, has high traffic and a higher incidence of trolls/emotional vampires and that skews both the type of post and the likely responses from posters. Relationships board doesn't tend towards frivolous posting so to a degree it's self-selective in the types of poster that will post there.

Wherever the advice is posted though, posters are free to take it or not and that will never change.

YABU I'm a massive advocate of relationships board as it has helped me to a) divorce a cheating spouse who did not want to make our marriage work b) pick up the pieces for me and dcs and c) see what a decent relationship looks like so that now I'm meeting men who actually value me, are nice and treat me well.

It is absolutely invaluable imo, and you can get advice there 24 hours a day.

A lot of women think they have to stay in crappy disrespectful relationships because they will never meet another man or things like that. I don't see LTB in a normal relationship scenario, but I think normally when people are posting on relationships board things have gotten pretty bad for them anyway.