to think that MN is not a good place to get relationship advice?

[InForAFlaming]

I've name changed for this as I am so obviously going to get flamed.
I've had a couple of threads on the relationship boards, as well as reading quite a lot. I've been really concerned and appalled about how quick people are to denounce someones relationship as doomed and suggest they leave, especially as there are children involved. I realize many of the people giving advice have been in very difficult or abusive situations, and I don't want to undermine the importance of these experiences, but there does seem to be a very quick assumption that everyone's husband is like this, therefore LTB.
When people post, you can only get a very vague sense of what's going on (I'm excluding the obviously awful ones where someone is being hurt or taken advantage of blatantly), and you only hear one side of the story. So how can people be so adamant in their advice?
In reality:
Good people (men and women) do bad things sometimes.
In the lifetime of a marriage/relationship most people (men and women) will at some point say something hurtful, behave unreasonably for a period of time, other things which are not nice.
And I get the impression that on MN all men are supposed to be angels all of the time, as well as being patient and understanding when women are less than angelic due to pregnancy, motherhood, work related stress etc.
Am I on my own here?

[Laquitar]

Strangers on the internet don't have a crystal ball so of course they get it wrong sometimes.

The way i see it if the relationship is good and posters get it wrong what is going to happen? Nobody will die.

If it is abusive and posters get it wrong and say 'men are like this, it is normal, at least he takes the bins out' what can happen? A lot.

[LadyOfLlangollen]

YANBU

I think you are right with..
I realize many of the people giving advice have been in very difficult or abusive situations, and I don't want to undermine the importance of these experiences, but there does seem to be a very quick assumption that everyone's husband is like this, therefore LTB


There is lots and lots of great advice but it sometimes seems like there are a lot of knee jerk type responses to OPs. Sometimes LTB is the right response but sometimes I think there are other things to try first.

[Thurlow]

YANBU. I don't think MN gives a reasoned view of relationships in many cases. I think it is amazing for women who are in very difficult or abusive situations, that is where it comes into its own. However I think for people who are just going through a rocky patch, some of the advice might actually be damaging and put the wrong sort of spin on a problem. Seeing a massive problem when it is actually a minor, fixable problem. I don't think anyone would probably LTB because of a thread but... I wonder, even worry, sometimes that it will make an OP see things that aren't there in her relationship, which could be very corrosive.

I do think that it is because of the posters who pay active attention to the RL board and post a lot. This is probably a massive leap, but I think I see that more posters on there than not have had difficult relationships in the past. Clearly that means they are in a position to give very good, practical advice - but it could colour their viewpoint on some things.

It's like - I've touch wood been fortunate enough to have a DC that sleeps, so I don't go on the Sleep board as I don't have any expertise or helpful experience to share. Similarly I don't venture into RL too much as again touch wood I have been in one l/t serious relationship and things are good - so I don't have much helpful experience to share to someone who is trying to fix or get out of a difficult relationship. So I assume that most posters on RL have had that difficult relationship/s. But then I wonder, if you have been in a few relationships and they have all ended badly, if your husband cheated on you, if your partner was abusive, do you have a different reaction to some situations and a possibly biased opinion?

(I'm aware that comment about relationships might sound judgemental and it wasn't meant that way, it's been a long week if my phrasing is off, apologies in advance...)

[BarbarianMum]

I used to think that the majority of posters were very quick to suggest that any quirk in a man's behaviour was due to him having an affair. But bloody hell, they are so often right!

I think it is a very good place to get support if you are in an abusive relationship, or your partner has left you or you have toxic inlaws unless you happen to be a man in which case it will somehow be all your fault anyway

[basgetti]

I wasn't offended, just giving my opinion. I also haven't seen threads where people are told to LTB for no good reason. But it's good to have a positive space for women where they aren't just told to put up with shitty or abusive treatment.

[cutefluffybunnes]

I think the advice on relationships is often very good. I've read plenty of 'talk it out like adults' advice, or posters suggesting Relate, or saying the spouse/partner sounds stressed or unwell. And for those who are coming in with properly abusive relationships... well, I think it's a lifeline. There is a lot of experience on here that can help an OP break free of a bad situation.

I also think that most people who post about their relationship on MN are facing serious problems by the time they post here.

[WorraLiberty]

I gave up reading it about 3 or 4 months ago when someone posted a thread asking for help, because she had 'punched her husband repeatedly' during an argument. He had remained totally calm and just left the house.

There were a few sensible posts telling her she needed help ASAP and that he should have called the Police etc..

But tons of DV apologists falling over themselves to excuse female to male violence. It made me sick to the pit of my stomach to be honest.

And it certainly wasn't the first time that sexism was glaringly obvious in that topic, so I really don't bother reading it now.

[Bowlersarm]

YANBU.

I feel for new MN members posting for the first time.

A. Bad. Move.

I think you have to be on MN for a fair while to get the lie of the land, as it were. You have to be robust. And you have to be able to pick and choose which comments you take on board or not.

On the flip side, I've seen amazing support for posters I didn't think deserved it until I thought about it, and it has given me such an alternative point of (perfectly reasoned) view, I'm in awe.

My summing up-it is brilliant if you can ditch the negative posts which aren't relevant.

[dolicapax]

YANBU
I think an awful lot of projection goes on. Those who have been in situation which has ended in one particular way often seem a little blinkered to the possibility that other people in the same situation may come to a different resolution.

[JapaneseMargaret]

YABU.

The full weight of society tells women to work at relationships, stick with it, put up with it, and accept it.

Mumsnet is one tiny salmon, swimming against that stream, saying 'actually, do you know what? You don't have to put up with shit if you don't want to. You have one life, and maybe your children might actually be better off out of this situation'.

You don't have to worry that Mumsnet somehow has more influence than society in general. :) Society still prevails, and the consistent message there is that women should stick at relationships, SWTB; not LTB.

Disclaimer: I am in a long-term, happy relationship - never been in an abusive one in any way, shape or form, and have no axe to grind.

[Bowlersarm]

Yuk, that was horrible worra thankfully I missed that one.

[whynowblowwind]

I think Mumsnet is excellent actually.

I love how it says you don't need to accept shit, you shouldn't accept shit. It says to me you're worth something.

I'm nowhere near strong enough to leave now, but I'm reading and slowly - SLOWLY - my attitude is changing. I used to believe till death do us part but Mumsnet is challenging that view.

It's true it should be given serious thought where children are concerned but most of us know that and want to protect our children.

[WillieWaggledagger]

frankly, i think more women in general need to hear that LTB is an option, if only that they can actually feel like they have a wider range of options than they initially thought when it comes to unsatisfactory relationships. they don't have to make that choice, but to know that it is a valid option helps

and, wrt working on the relationship, many OPs include some form of "i have been working on the relationship for months/years but he isn't doing the same" so often it has moved beyond that point by the time they get to the relationships board

so many of the messages about working on relationships, focusing on making the other person happy etc, are targeted at women far more than men

[fluffyraggies]

I think all answers have to be read, and then advice taken on a sort of 'average view' basis.

There'll always be an extreme pov in both directions when you throw a question to the public. The middle ground is usually where the sound advice is.

Having said that, when i've posted for help in the past the more dogmatic, LTB sort of posts have given me the affermation that i needed to actually DO something about the situation, IYSWIM? Given me a bit of backbone.

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

YANBU

I posted on here many moons ago when I first joined, looking for advice and support. The advice I was given was that dp was lazy, abusive and probably shagging some and to LTB - even some of the well known relationship gurus on here.

One poster out of pages of 'advice' suggested dp may have a certain illness and after dragging him to GP it was confirmed and treatment was given.

Were back on top form and have been for years and if I'd gone with the mob, I could have ruined my family.

Don't get me wrong, the advice for DV and EA and cheating spouses is great but A LOT of posters are quick to pick holes and scream LTB too quick.

Surprisingly a lot of the posters have these super cool, hands on, dream men who run the home and kids while the women sit doing fuck all.

[wtffgs]

I think lots of lonely, confused and possibly frightened women get a listening ear and practical support. RL friends will say "oh, but (inset name) is such a nice guy!" because they don't see the horror that goes on behind closed door.

OP, I think you have a tired and dull agenda which is to paint MN as some homogenous crew of man-loathing wimmin.

[WorraLiberty]

It wasn't Mumsnet's finest moment Bowlers

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

whynow I hope you get there

[snoofle]

YANBU.
Mumsnet is not known for LTB for nothing!

But a couple of points.
Each year it is getting a little better! I know, hard to believe, but I do think it is true -still a long way to go though--

Also, when thye ask, is he having an affair, it does turn outto be true more than I thought it would.

[gordyslovesheep]

I remember that Worra ...grim stuff

[JapaneseMargaret]

I'm a feminist, by the way.

I love men. All the men in my life are lovely.

I do not like bastards. At all.

But of course, it goes with saying - surely! - that not all men are bastards. These words are not synonymous.

It's OK to have a problem with bastards, and anyone who thinks you're tarring all men with the same brush is the person who wants to take a look at themselves.

Leaving the bastard is a good thing.

[WillieWaggledagger]

"I love men. All the men in my life are lovely."

exactly, me too

and i don't think i or any other woman should expect any less from any other man

[WilsonFrickett]

If you are thinking of the same thread I am

Say a poster posts in the heat of the moment... With an incredibly valid point about her relationships. Posters then respond to that post. Op sleeps on it then either realises she's painted a far blacker picture than the reality OR wakes up, realises she actually should LTB but because of whatever reason can't or won't.

Op backtracks.

MN has no way of knowing if she's in situation a or b and continues to post, op continues to defend DH who is now smashing, lovely, wonderful father, etc but will tend to assume the first words are the true words and respond to that.

Moral of the story? Dont start threads unless you mean them, I guess. But if you do, don't blame MN for responding to your situation in a way you won't necessarily like.

(sorry if that's a bit muddled. Tired)

[Minnieisthedevilmouse]

I find the patterns and detail interesting but do find opinion is set in first few posts. Then mn judge and jury set a group think that can be very hard to argue against. It can be but takes dedication.

I do agree there's an awful lot of this happened to me, it's therefore the same for you regardless of the query posted.

[LettertoHerms]

YANBU.

Sometimes the situation is obvious, and MN is absolutely wonderful at telling women how they can get practical help, and encouraging them through the hard parts of leaving, when abuse really is present.

But I've seen so many threads where mners project their own experiences onto what are likely normal healthy relationships in a rough patch, which can be very hard and confusing for the op, and not helpful whatsoever. I think some of the mindset is that it's better to do this than to risk advising a woman to stay when there is abuse she's minimizing in her post, but I think mners assume that too much, and can it be detrimental to the op to assume there's abuse.

And really, there's a few, very loud, posters who genuinely seem to hate men. If you're an established mner, you can recognize and skip their posts, but a newpposter will have no idea to take their idea with a grain of salt.