to think that MN is not a good place to get relationship advice?

[InForAFlaming]

I've name changed for this as I am so obviously going to get flamed.
I've had a couple of threads on the relationship boards, as well as reading quite a lot. I've been really concerned and appalled about how quick people are to denounce someones relationship as doomed and suggest they leave, especially as there are children involved. I realize many of the people giving advice have been in very difficult or abusive situations, and I don't want to undermine the importance of these experiences, but there does seem to be a very quick assumption that everyone's husband is like this, therefore LTB.
When people post, you can only get a very vague sense of what's going on (I'm excluding the obviously awful ones where someone is being hurt or taken advantage of blatantly), and you only hear one side of the story. So how can people be so adamant in their advice?
In reality:
Good people (men and women) do bad things sometimes.
In the lifetime of a marriage/relationship most people (men and women) will at some point say something hurtful, behave unreasonably for a period of time, other things which are not nice.
And I get the impression that on MN all men are supposed to be angels all of the time, as well as being patient and understanding when women are less than angelic due to pregnancy, motherhood, work related stress etc.
Am I on my own here?

Delphiniums - do you think people in your real life don't have an agenda when giving advice? Because they really, really do.

MNers on the relationship board don't hate men, they hate bastards.

They jump to assuming 'bastard' with one side of the story and not knowing OP.
I don't discuss it with any friends- just ones who know me well. I accept that they have an agenda but I don't seek their advice if I don't like their agenda!

I'm sure there are some inappropriate LTB.

However the beauty of posting on mn is that you'll get told the truth which doesn't always happen in RL. Friends can tell you what you want to hear or feel like they have to protect you from the honesty, where as on mn you'll get the honesty, generally from people who have been in the same situation.

It also makes me appreciate my own relationship a bit more, there are some women that tolerate some real shit and it's ok to be told they shouldn't.

What alternative advice would you give?

I've never understood the accusations of "man-haters", a lot of those posting are very happily married.

For those of you saying that you would talk to friends or dh, that's because your issues are small, normal problems. It's very hard to see what is normal and what isn't when you're a boiled frog (I.e. You started off in cold water and it slowly heated up).

If you have a good relationship generally, you don't need Relationships.

And people around you do have an agenda. Largely because they know you both and wouldn't want to say LTB, if you then go on to stay with him.

I have seen at least one thread where a man was supported in leaving his wife, but there is a (often realised) suspicion that a man posting there may be doing so because his wife is a mumsnetter. It's tricky. As Tiggy points out. You can't assume people posting LTB are female either.

When faced with the bare facts it can be easier to see a pattern. Without being bogged down with emotions or protecting your personal relationship with the friend.

As I said before, no one is going to leave a good relationship just because MN said LTB.

Ok, next time op comes on saying her husband hit her (and actually it's the 5th time) or has ignored her for one month, or he has refused sex for two years, or he has been having an affair with her mate, you get on there and tell her about compromise and steadiness.

Ah yes, compromise and steadiness. Wonderful things in a functioning relationship. In a bad relationship watchwords for "I give, you take"

And if 99 posters get annoyed and huffy because their dh is actually lovely and they just wanted an outlet to complain about something minor, but 1 poster realises she can have a happy life and she doesn't have to live in fear anymore, then every LTB is worth it.

We all have our own agenda.

I personally come at things from a viewpoint that both people are good people and life got in the way. Therefore my take is that you try to see the other side, if only to best communicate in their terms how things need to change to improve.

If I'd posted about my relationship, numerous times both me and my husband would have been told to LTB. That's because many people on the relationships board don't come at it from the premise that both people must have been good people to want to get together.

Then, there are the full on abuse cases which MN is fantastic at giving good solid practical advice on. Before being with my DH I had my own problems which have carried through into this relationship. MN has help me to come to terms more with those issues and therefore improved my peace of mind.

Even so, I'm very much of the viewpoint that the LTB and thoughts that bad patches are signs of a poor relationship are far too strong. I come away from many threads unsurprised that the divorce rates are so high.

I've come away from many thread horrified at the terrible lives some women and children live and what some people consider normal .

• "many people don't come at it from the premise that both people must have been good people to want to get together"

I don't really get what you mean.

I don't think all people in relationships are "good people. "
I think a lot of "good people" can behave badly.
Good or not, A lot of people are so incompatible they make each other miserable.

If a poster is just told to ltb then they may go on to form a new relationship just as unhealthy. What is more important is empowering the op to stand up for herself and to know what is normal or not.

With that empowerment, some unhealthy relationships can be turned round and rescued so a ltb isn't necessarily the best option. Of course, for some, it is absolutely the best option.

I do wish that some posters wouldn't automatically wade in with ltb. Sometimes to avoid a repeat relationship, the op has to look into her own psyche and work on that, so that she herself, can develop the knowledge and skills to enable a healthy relationship. Just leaving the bastard, the next day, won't always solve any issues by itself.
That's not victim blaming in any way, the op should not accommodate any behaviour that is unreasonable, but they need to work out why they have fallen into, or accepted negative patterns of behaviour. If they can then have the confidence and insight to communicate that this isn't acceptable then there is hope for this and future relationships.

Ltb should be a last resort, not a first port of call. Having said that, by the time the op has posted, it is sometimes glaringly obvious that they are at the last resort.

I really don't think Ltb is as prevalent as being suggested here. There is often " ask him to leave for a few days" which is pounced upon as being Ltb, but is often a chance to show that the relationship is conditional, the op is not a door mat and both need time apart to reflect. Again, I don't see what's so bad about that.

Its like any other forum - sometimes the advice is useful, insightful, life saving even. Sometimes its not.

I love the threads where someone is obviously being abused and, with the support of MN, rallies and leaves. Its heartening.

On the other hand, I also get really tired of the black-and-white attitudes towards affairs, arguments, shit that happens in many relationships...the whole 'script' thing winds me up. It becomes cartoon-like. It leaves no room for the reality - that basically decent people sometimes do shitty things.

On the whole, though, the Relationships board is a really important part of MN. It gives women a space to talk about things which are often unsayable in RL.

Out of interest, why exactly should LTB be a last resort?

Really interested in understanding the thinking behind people who are so seemingly terrified of the position.

My first choice is the relationship I'm in.

My second choice would be to be single.

My last resort would be the sort of relationships I read about on the relationships forum.

Last resort as it seems in most of the ops, the woman wants to save the relationship either for the children or because she loves him (often I can't see why, but thats up to her) or because she is scared.

Personally I could not put up with any shit at all, but I am emotionally strong and would have ltb over much less. But that is me. I'm not going to project what I would do when the op often wants something completely different. If she is empowered then she can make the decision herself. The right decision for her maybe ltb or it may not, but that is not for us to decide.

I'm not saying don't suggest that ltb may be a good option. I'm talking about posters who automatically say ltb when other options haven't been explored or the op hasn't had the confidence to put her foot down and make him respect her.If we can give her that confidence then ltb MAY not always be the best outcome. Note the use of the word may.

I dont think many posters think that a poster should stay if they have been hit more than once.
I dont think a lot of posters thinks a poster should necessarily stay if the other person has had an affair.
If a poster has come on looking for advice, after the couple have already done counselling, then again, seperation may be the best route so that there is peace.

But there is a whole lot of relationship problems other than those
eg JohnFarley mentioned a husband not talking for 1 month, or a couple not had sex for 2 years. Those types of situations and others besides can be worked on. Will all of them work out? No. But no need to LTB until at least some work has been done on the relationship.

But most people don't just say Ltb at those situations. Please look at the boards. There is always the suggestion to see a Gp, go to counselling, and a look at the background to the situation.

Out of interest, why exactly should LTB be a last resort?

Unless it is an abusive situation, most relationships that break down are because of both parties dropping the ball. Sometimes it's good to take a step back, look at your wedding photos, and remember why you got together in the first place. Once upon a time OP and DP were happy together. I think that's worth at least trying to save before giving up on vows you swore to each other.

That doesn't mean take more of DP's shit. It means at least try to figure something out that makes both happy.

But 99% of the threads in relationships are abusive, or at least sound close enough to hell on earth, to me.

Maybe not physically abusive, but certainly emotionally and/or financially abusive. At the very least, completely miserable, isolating and unfulfilling.

I guess I depends on what you're willing to accept.

You (generic) might want to urge other women to work on such relationships (the men are never there to be persuaded). I'm not.

I suspect Princess that we have a different idea of abusive relationships. Many of the relationships on the board are abusive. When one partner consistently treats the other as less worthy of respect and less important, there is no way forward.

Remember those posting on the board when asked, have virtually always tried to talk to their partner about the issues, and tried to resolve them.

LTB should not be last resort.

Relationships should add to your life, make it better. Too many people on the relationships board say they are relieved if their partner is away for a week. What kind of relationship is that?

JM. Do you have a perfect relatioship, and your husband/partner thinks you are perfect too?
So you think that 99% of the ops of the relationship board should LTB?