to think that MN is not a good place to get relationship advice?

[InForAFlaming]

I've name changed for this as I am so obviously going to get flamed.
I've had a couple of threads on the relationship boards, as well as reading quite a lot. I've been really concerned and appalled about how quick people are to denounce someones relationship as doomed and suggest they leave, especially as there are children involved. I realize many of the people giving advice have been in very difficult or abusive situations, and I don't want to undermine the importance of these experiences, but there does seem to be a very quick assumption that everyone's husband is like this, therefore LTB.
When people post, you can only get a very vague sense of what's going on (I'm excluding the obviously awful ones where someone is being hurt or taken advantage of blatantly), and you only hear one side of the story. So how can people be so adamant in their advice?
In reality:
Good people (men and women) do bad things sometimes.
In the lifetime of a marriage/relationship most people (men and women) will at some point say something hurtful, behave unreasonably for a period of time, other things which are not nice.
And I get the impression that on MN all men are supposed to be angels all of the time, as well as being patient and understanding when women are less than angelic due to pregnancy, motherhood, work related stress etc.
Am I on my own here?

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

When I posted about XH, over many years, under many names, I got a resounding LTB. I was speaking to my dm the other day about why I had stayed so long in what was clearly an abusive relationship, she said, "I wish I has said it, but you can't just tell someone to leave, can you?"

And that's what RL was, RL was trying to normalised what was not normal, but it was also somewhere that I could not be fully open about everything that was happening. RL said, "maintain the status quo". Every single time I got LTB. Eventually I did.

Then I got together with dh. And there was a moment early on, when I worried my warning signals were all wrong, so I posted about something that had happened. The response? Very much a "don't worry, you're overreacting, but it's understandable, he's a good un".

I'm in a good relationship now. It's inrecognisable from my previous marriage. I thought my previous marriage was normal. It was so far outside the realms of normal. Without having a forum where I could be honest (and at first I was defensive and argued that he was great, it was just this one issue) I would never have known that what I was fighting for was so wrong.

Posters there are not man haters. They believe men should be treated as equals; that it shouldn't be believed that "men are just like that" because good men aren't. Good men care about their partner, and vice versa. It was a revalation to me when dh wanted to comfort me when I was sad. I find it astonishing there was a time when my expectation was anger.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Sorry, sooo many typos

[lavenderhoney]

I think the advice given is generally very useful and well meant. Not everyone has a large group of friends and family who they can share with.

Its always good to get different points of view. I have posted over the years about my disintegrating marriage under various nc and received advice that was blunt and didn't mess about- but that's good. It wasn't hidden beneath the realities of having to see that person everyday and know they knew iyswim. It took me ages to see posters were absolutely right anyway.

I do see some advice and pov which are rather inflammatory but usually someone sensible disagrees and posts that they disagree.

[JapaneseMargaret]

Glad you are now in a healthy relationship, Chris. There are plenty of good 'uns out there.

Interesting that so many posters who've actually been on the receiving end of the LTB chorus, actually appreciated it.

[bakingaddict]

In the relationship advice what has always been very evident to me is that lots of woman are very insightful about how to get out of abusive relationships and that there is a wealth of practical advice available in the MN community.

Nobody walks away from a relationship on the basis of what strangers think but for the person involved it may be a way of confirming suspicions or niggles they already have that people closer to them may find difficult to discuss. I'm sure, on balance, MN empowers many more woman to leave bad relationships than good or average ones.

[Delphiniumsblue]

MN is the last place that I would ask for advice! The general view is usually LTB and people bring their own situation to it.

[SelectAUserName]

I've seen all sides. I think in the most part, the advice is excellent, honest, considered and supportive and the breathing space that MN gives someone who may not have a RL network to draw on is invaluable.

However I've also seen threads where a poster has just found evidence of her DP/DH's affair, and in amongst the majority of sensible "you poor thing, take time to decide what YOU want, watch out for the script, I've been there and it sucks" posts there will invariably be a minority, but a vociferous and repeatedly insistent one, who are all "kick him out now, the wanker" and who seem to take it as a personal slight if the poor OP, who is still processing this horrendous world-changing event, even considers trying to work through it. She might come to "kick out the wanker" in time but it has to be in her own time. In the same way there is a "script" for cheating partners, so there seems to be a MN script for threads about cheating partners.

Similarly there are some threads where the OP might just be having a rant about an uncharacteristic slip-up or it might be the tip of a bigger, and worse, iceberg, but instead of trying to establish which it is, there are a few posters who wade straight in with "red flag, red flag, LTB". Sometimes they'll be right (even a stopped clock is right twice a day) and that just fuels their insistence next time, so you get letting-off-steam rants from posters with no backstory of problems or suggested abuse being met, seemingly from nowhere, with dogmatic pronouncements - not suggestions - that their DH is a disrespectful abusive arse who's probably cheating to boot.

[SelectAUserName]

Sorry, meant to add - from the other side of the coin, I can see how frustrating it must be to read a thread and know exactly how it's going to go, especially if it's describing a situation you yourself have been in, and to see the OP making blatant mistakes (having left an abusive relationship and got over the first horrible week, they give in to the temptation to contact their should-be-ex and get sucked back in, for example, or the OP is considering forgiving her partner's third instance of infidelity) when you just want to shout "FFS WOMAN! Wake up and smell the coffee!" and some posters DO post that, or a variation of it. I tend to walk away or adopt the "trap more flies with honey than vinegar" approach but it is hard. I can understand why someone who has been through the same mill and come out the other side would want to protect an OP from making the same mistakes but everyone has to tread their own path in their own time.

Re the posters being on the end of LTB appreciating it: I'd counter that the ones for whom it was the wrong advice are less likely to hang around on the forum which gave them that advice to give feedback on it, so it's a fairly self-selecting demographic!

[lavenderhoney]

All those saying they wouldn't post on mn for advice- what do you do?

[Delphiniumsblue]

Talk to RL friends who know you- or family. Not strangers who have their own agenda.

[Dad257]

In any post - and the resulting advice - re-read, and flip the gender. The bias becomes obvious; and I wouldn't want a daughter of mine to grow up with such segregated views.

Gender generalisations just excuse bad behaviour on all sides.
There are nice people. There are bad people.

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

I'm with Japanese Margaret. I've been astounded at what cruel treatment people will put up with for the sake of keeping a family together. Ive been really shocked how horrible some men are to their wives/gfs. Then the op might say, oh but they're a good dad.'

I don't think people need to live their lives in quiet desperation so I would always suggest there are alternatives.

[Delphiniumsblue]

I am astounded at the double standards! If a man posts it, then he is lacking in some way and needs to be more understanding. If a woman posts she should LTB. I have never seen a man given that advice.
MN is fine for fun, chat, debate and straightforward advice e.g which pram to buy - but not if you want advice on a personal problem. Step parenting is even worse than relationships. People bring their personal agenda to it- sometimes I think they forget the OP's problem as they apply their own!

[Timetoask]

Most OPS who come to mumsnet with dire relationship stories probably already know in their guts that they are in an abusive situation and need to end the relationship. They have probably lost confidence in their own feelings and opinions and need some validation that what they think is actually correct.

However, there are many times when the situation is something that can be remedied with work and time. I find that what inevitably happens in these cases is that people are very quick to suggest they LTB. The thing is, we need to remember that it is almost impossible to put every detail in a few paragraphs, also, we only have one side of the story. I am very hesitant to tell someone to LTB until everything has been tried, specially when kids are involved.

There was a thread a few days ago about a teenage boy being heartbroken during his exams because his longterm girlfriend broke up with him at just a rotten time. Reading the answers on that made me think that there are a lot of man haters on here.

[Delphiniumsblue]

There are a lot of man haters on here!
I can see the use if the OP wants to go -and people give practical advice on how to do it.

[TiggyD]

I'm not a man-hater. I'm a man. I use LTB quite a lot. I would normally suggest counselling first, but if somebody is saying they're in a horrible and hopeless relationship, saying "don't be in a horrible and hopeful relationship" kind of makes sense.

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

What do you mean by man-hater? I've never met one and am curious. Do you have an online quiz I can take?

[peggyundercrackers]

YANBU - there is always the same few people saying the same things over and over, they are like broken records.

the few who don't seem to like men are DEFINTELY not like that all the time and what they say does not reflect what they do in RL - I remember I asked one why she said certain things about men and the way she seemed to hate them - she admitted she was in a relationship, she loved her man and didn't really act in a way that she portrayed online - but she thought that what she was saying online was the way she thought it should be not how it actually was - it was unbelievable.

I don't understand why anyone would ask for relationship advice from a bunch of strangers the actually follow through with what they are being told - they would be as well standing outside their front door with a clipboard asking for advice.

I also think some people come here knowing the answer they want and use it for strength to make a decision they know they should make anyway even though it may not be a sensible answer. if that's what you use it for just grow a pair and be done with it.

[meditrina]

I think that if you are looking for embittered hags who are projecting their own misery, you'll find them.

And there's even a regular troll who starts threads then accuses all and sundry of this.

I post a lot of relationships. I can only now assume at many of you think I am embittered, give shit advice which ignores what is actually being posted about and is totally disproportionate to the issue raised, and have only ever one thing to say regardless.

Or, perhaps "LTB" is a myth a like the bitter, projecting hags is a myth?

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

I have in the past been discomforted on the way male op have been received there tho, so I can see where you are coming from with that delphinium.

So op might say, blah blah, terrible time, etc, how do I get my big baby-cakes back?' and then 11000 posters respond, 'eww, you call her big baby-cakes...no wonder she left etc'

I haven't seen that recently tho.

[silkknickers]

YANBU.
I don't often go onto the relationships thread because many of the respondents who adopt an almost hectoring tone when the OP doesn't do what they want her/him to do (eg LTB). On the whole the threads are supportive, but there is certainly an element of vociferous individuals with their own axes to grind.

[PrincessBabyCat]

All those saying they wouldn't post on mn for advice- what do you do?

Not to be patronizing. But I talk it out with my partner, and we work on a solution that works for us. We're both pretty good about telling each other when we're unhappy with the relationship, when we feel like we're drifting, and when we are irritating each other. I don't need a jury weighing in on my personal life, my personal choices are not a democracy.

But, I also know that if -god forbid- I got a divorce or simply just wanted to get out, I have plenty of RL people that would support me. I'm not high and dry by any means, and I have never felt trapped.

I do understand that not everyone is as in tune with themselves to understand when they're compromising when they shouldn't be instead of listening to their gut warning signals. I'm not judging people that can't see through the fog and gas lighting.

Sometimes I do weigh in on some threads to let people know how our relationship works so that they can have an idea of how a healthy, consensual relationship could look like in contrast to theirs. But to be honest, I have never found myself being able to relate to any threads. The worst of my complaints doesn't go much further than a petty annoyance that just grates my patience and makes me cranky on a bad day.

[meditrina]

I would agree there is an assumption that if you post on Relationships, then you are concerned about your relationship.

If you just want to sound off about one vile day, then you'd probably choose a different topic, and if the question was "how do we get through this bad patch" then I'd expect it to be asked in those terms. (Though of course, if you lurch from one bad patch to the next, then your family might be much less happy than it could be, and that is why some are likely to ask if it really is a one-off).

[LittleBearPad]

On balance YANBU. I've hidden the topic.

[helzapoppin2]

YANBU, I'm glad you've asked this question.