to think that MN is not a good place to get relationship advice?

[InForAFlaming]

I've name changed for this as I am so obviously going to get flamed.
I've had a couple of threads on the relationship boards, as well as reading quite a lot. I've been really concerned and appalled about how quick people are to denounce someones relationship as doomed and suggest they leave, especially as there are children involved. I realize many of the people giving advice have been in very difficult or abusive situations, and I don't want to undermine the importance of these experiences, but there does seem to be a very quick assumption that everyone's husband is like this, therefore LTB.
When people post, you can only get a very vague sense of what's going on (I'm excluding the obviously awful ones where someone is being hurt or taken advantage of blatantly), and you only hear one side of the story. So how can people be so adamant in their advice?
In reality:
Good people (men and women) do bad things sometimes.
In the lifetime of a marriage/relationship most people (men and women) will at some point say something hurtful, behave unreasonably for a period of time, other things which are not nice.
And I get the impression that on MN all men are supposed to be angels all of the time, as well as being patient and understanding when women are less than angelic due to pregnancy, motherhood, work related stress etc.
Am I on my own here?

For some people myself included the advice given has been life changing in a good way.

I can't understand why women are arguing that other women should not point out to someone that they can leave a relationship if they want.

It is a genuine puzzle.

Why is my relationship under the spotlight? I have a happy relationship with a man I've been with over a quarter of my life. He's my best friend, and we both look out for - and after - each other.

He moved to the other side of the world for me, leaving behind his beloved parents, and army of friends. I can't say enough good things about him, he is a Good Man.

Is my relationship perfect? No. Do we have our niggles and disagreements? Of course. But has he ever done anything like raised his voice at me, threatened me, or hit me? Got drunk and stayed out all night? Made me cry, ever? Made me doubt him? Made me feel insecure...?

Categorically: no. Quite the opposite, in so many cases.

He is my best friend.

I am not some sort of relationship gloater. You can do a search on me, if you like. I've never spoken of my DH, nor my relationship. However, now that I'm asked about it, I'm happy to say. Everyone deserves someone like him, and I don't see why anyone shouldn't endeavour to have someone like him.

I half agree with you OP but the other half of me has seen the wonderful advice that is given to posters in real need of understanding and support - and that kind of blots out some of the rubbish rambling that also goes on.

I've criticised posters today who are leaping in with assumptions of continued cheating to a woman who has posted for support. They're ridiculous and unhelpful.

Sometimes posters do project, of course they do. But I see it happening the other way too i.e. I put up with this in my relationship, so you should too.

I also think if you haven't been in a really good relationship, it is hard to see how awful yours really is. I could have done with some LTB in some of my early relationships. None were really awful, but I could have, and did, do much better.

What% of the male population is likely to be like your man JapaneseMargaret?

I think people are more blunt on here than they would be in real life, which means, I suppose, that you get honest opinions rather than people just telling you what you think you want to hear.

Someone I know was relating the details recently, of her husband having left. It was clear that those of us listening were all thinking "OW" but not one of us said so, whereas on here I think I would have.

Expect high standards from men equals man hater.

Tolerate really shitty behaviour equals not man hater.

I got it now!

I suspect Princess that we have a different idea of abusive relationships. Many of the relationships on the board are abusive. When one partner consistently treats the other as less worthy of respect and less important, there is no way forward.

No we don't. That's why I said that unless the relationship is abusive, LTB should be last resort. That means that if the relationship is not abusive, trying to work it out is a good thing and leaving should be a last resort when all else has failed.

You're just repeating what I said with women who are in emotionally, financially, and verbally abusive relationships should get the hell out.

But not every partner being an asshole is being abusive. Not every sulk or strop is emotional abuse. It's childish, yes. But there are times when I read threads (at least in AIBU) where they are being passive aggressive as well. Or they're just antagonizing the poor guy and insisting they're in the right. Sometimes if there is a pattern of poor problem resolution skills it can be salvaged. Sometimes not. But at least try if you think something is worth saving. If you want out, get out no one is forcing you to keep fighting. Just don't leave with "what ifs".

Though, yes as PP's are saying some women don't know they're in over their heads or that their relationship is abnormal, so it's good to get a response saying they don't have to tolerate it and that they are in the right to stand up for themselves and shove a foot up DP's ass or even that it IS ok to leave if they want to.

Why should LTB be the last resort?

I think we should be happy in our relationships, not just able to put up with them.

Out of interest, why exactly should LTB be a last resort?

Really?

In a truly abusive relationship, of course 'LTB' is the only real option. Most of what I've seen posted though doesn't seem to me an abusive situation, just big arguments, one off events, with little or no background information given, yet people still scream 'LTB'.

As an example, an argument dh and I had about a year ago.
He came home from work one day, he was snippy and moody, impatient with the dc and ignored ds1 when he asked him for help with something. He found something i'd bought for the house which was an impulse buy, a bit too expensive and we weren't in the best financial position, which started the row off. He got gradually more pissed off as the evening progressed which culminated in a blazing row, him screaming at me that I was a selfish bitch and storming out, smashing a vase on his way out (kind of accidently/on purpose). He turned up 4 hours later pissed, whilst I just pretty much sat and cried all night.

That's a true story...from my pov. Had I posted that on here i'd be met with cries of 'LTB' from some people with no other information given, as well as many 'Oh I just couldn't live with such a man', 'my dh would never act that way' comments from others.

Yes...one event, one bad mood from him and one nasty row (I can count on one hand the number of times we've had a 'proper' row btw) and I should kick him out. The dc can grow up without him there, a happy ten year relationship down the drain, my best friend gone. Not to mention that in said row I gave as good as I got and shouted some nasty things back at him.

Most people don't seem to consider that you get only one pov and are happy to dish out the advice to LTB without caring about the background. God knows, none of us are saints, everyone has bu at some time or another. LTB should always be the last option, in non-abusive situations, where the alternative is breaking up your family.

Why should LTB be the last resort?

My parents both worked on their relationship which was in the shitter for a while and dragged it back up. They're back to being in love as ever. I think if they just threw in the towel and quit, it would have been a real shame. But they both had to work on it, it wasn't a one sided deal. The onus isn't on just one to fix things.

I'm not saying lower your standards and stick around with "good enough" if you can't work it out. I'm saying try and if it doesn't work then leave knowing you at least tried.

I took my wedding vows seriously when I said them, and if our relationship ever deteriorates I think that it'd be worth fighting for to get back to how it is now or better. I hope DH would feel the same way if it ever came to that.

GreenEyedGoblin - I am horrified at your description. Yes one incident, but an awful one. And if it happened in my very long relationship, DP would know that things had to change, and that must never happen again.

I personally rarely say LTB. But I do think women have to come to that conclusion themselves. But I will point out how awful some behaviour really is.

Why should LTB be the last resort?

I think we should be happy in our relationships, not just able to put up with them.

I think everyone would agree with this sentiment but what some of us are saying is that maybe we can empower the op so that she is able to demand changes so that she can be happy again in a changed relationship. Sometimes this will never work - as princess said, both partners have to change. But sometimes it will work if the op feels able to demand those changes and the dp is willing to work with her.

I don't think anyone would say LTB if the OP had never actually talked to her partner about what was wrong. But, as is often the case in relationships, the DP laughs at, ignores, or gets angry at the OP's unhappiness, then there is no point working at it.

It takes two to work at it. Too oftenw omen are told to work at it, when their DP won't work at it.

The idea of demanding change leaves me a bit cold. If your DP won't listen to you if you are unhappy with something, what is the point? And I don't mean something petty like loading the dishwasher "wrong".

I wouldn't want to be with someone who only cared about my feelings, if I demanded they listen. That is not a respectful relationship.

The real issue here, is that some MNers have lower standards for an acceptable relationship, than others have. That is why we disagree.

Again I agree, but people fall into negative patterns of behaviour. Perhaps their parents had a similar relationship. Perhaps they don't know how to change or what normal is.

If after communicating and "demanding" the dp laughs at, ignores, or gets angry at the OP's unhappiness, then yes there is no point at working at it. There is no point in flogging a dead horse. People will get away with what they can. Until now they have got away with it. With advice from MN the op can gain insight and strength. If DP realises the op is serious then the DP will either go with the changes necessary or at that point it's LTB.

Surely it is worth trying to instigate some changes before breaking up a family? But no, people should never put up with a relatioship.

Actually I have a really high standard for a relationship. I would never put up with anything. But I realise that not everybody is like me. Some people don't know what a healthy relationship is or how to go about achieving one. Unless you "learn" how to do this there is the possibility that future relationships will be just as unhealthy.

Ops need to remember that if you don't respect yourselves then nobody else will.

But yes LTB is often the only option.

The real issue here, is that some MNers have lower standards for an acceptable relationship, than others have. That is why we disagree

Personally, I think it's a case that some people have an unrealistic and 'disneyfied' expectation of what a perfect man and perfect relationship should be.

My sister is one IMO. If a man ever raised his voice to her, he'd be out. If a man ever left his towel on the floor he'd be out. If a man ever chose a friends party over a night with her, he'd be out etc.

You have good times and not-so-good times in a relationship. I don't believe anyone who says their relationships are perfect. If you expect perfection 100% of the time from another person, of course you will be disappointed. Lord knows if dh had expected perfection from me, he'd have dumped me years ago.

calmet... Are you always so gauche in your posting? Imagine how posters would feel reading what you've posted there. It's all very well to be happy and smug in your relationship/feelings of all's right with your world and be able to talk about 'standards' that you perceive you have. It's another thing entirely to have had the rug pulled out from under you, scrabble around to find what you think is a supportive forum to talk about it on... only to find yourself being judged as having 'low standards'.

It's one thing to stand behind the OP and tell them that they shouldn't be accepting that behaviour at all, that their partner's antics are wrong and unacceptable, that's supportive and in no way accepting. It's quite another to put a woman down, critiquing her own self, when she's at a low ebb.

I don't mean to pick at you specifically because I've read more or less that from other posters on other threads but your post right there, it absolutely jarred.

I agree with princess

Also a great stealth boast there japanM I'm glad you found your Disney ending.

Although I think your perspective of a 'good' relationship may be slightly out of perspective.

People do mess up. I'm not taking DA Or any other type of abuse, but real family's and relationships flow and ebb with the tide. Life isn't about gaily skipping down the garden chucking Daisy's here and there. The good times should waaaay out weigh the crappy but they do happen.

On here the vibe sometimes Is if your not sky high bouncing of the roof happy than leave. You deserve better than the scum bag who doesn't wash his plate.

If I had followed the RB advice I would have left my best friend and threw every thing away, when he actually had an underlying illness, which one very clever MN spotted.

Tbh - I would find it very strange to be in a relationship with some who never wanted to disagree with me or had a different opinion or act like a real human being rather than an android. - creepy.

I spent seven years tying myself in knots trying to 'work' on my relationship because I didn't want to LTB.

Then I stumbled across this place and discovered that in fact I was in an emotionally abusive relationship.

That scared me at first. I resented that strangers on the internet could pronounce on my relationship. I might've even started a thread similar to this: 'who the fuck are you lot to tell me about my personal life?' 'You don't know my DP', etc...

But the thing was, once I started reading more and more threads about EA, I couldn't unread them and the scales slowly started to fall from my eyes. I didn't realise there was a name for what I was going through. For the anxiety, low self esteem, constant walking on eggshells, knowing something was wrong but thinking it was my fault.

I eventually did LTB and I'm so glad I did. When I look back now I can see he was a grade A wanker.

At the time I thought he was my best friend and the love of my life.

Ha!

I'm so glad I came across the relationships board when I did otherwise I might've gone on to have kids with him.

YABU. AIBU is certainly not the place for relationship advice and the Relationships Board may not be the place if a poster is unprepared for a range of sometimes blunt opinions. However, as a regular contributor to Relationships, I simply don't recognise this alleged howling of 'LTB' for minor problems. It's true there is a pretty universal intolerance of infidelity and cruelty but that's understandable.

Echoing what others have said. Women are under huge & often unfair pressure from all kinds of sources to 'try harder' when it comes to relationships. 'You've got to work at it'.... 'give and take'.... 'take the rough with the smooth'.... 'men are like that'.... and other placating phrases designed to keep them meek and obedient. If MN-ers can inject a little steel and encourage assertiveness against that barrage of 'Put Up and Shut Up', then I'm proud to be a small part of it.

Put up and shut up is not the same as two people who love each other working on it cog

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Think some people believe their own hype too much.