To feel awful for sending DD to her dads when she didnt want to go?

[Needsmorecake]

I feel awful.

Shes there for 6 days, she doesnt want to go, she has told me that she doesnt want to go, I know she will be fine onces shes there, and its more the thought of not being here with me.... but, well, she went off wailing.

Her dad isnt great any any kind of parenting that has any feelings, she tells me she cant talk to him, she doesnt even feel able to ask for a drink when shes with him. I have told him this lots of times, but, im the ex wife, so it never goes down well.

He picked her up from school today, DD had had a meltdown last night about not wanting to go and said hes scary and she cant talk to him. I told him, so he knew and could maybe do something to address it. Rather than getting home with her and trying to have a reassuring chat, he shouted at her in the car and told her she was silly. she was in tears when i met her at home, she was cross with me for telling him ( she told me in private, and i explained i told him so he could try and fix it)
He then had a go at me in front of her because i brought her a skateboard, or rather, i let her get one with her own money, as she has too many toys.... then he told her it was a good thing as shes not fallen off and hurt herself yet as shes too scared to do that, so maybe she will do with this. That makes Literally NO sense to me.

DD started to cry again, and i gave her a cuddle, sat with her and told her all the nice things she would do and what we could do when she came back and that i would call her tomorrow. He got all cross and said its not necessary for me to call and i was babying her and making it worse.

We got out to the car and DD whispered at me that she didnt want to go, i still made her, she got int he car and was wailing, really sobbing, and he shouted that this was all my fault.

I now feel dreadful.

Shes 8.5

did i do the right thing? i feel like ive broken her trust a bit.
Shes usually fine with weekends, but anything longer upsets her.

' im doing the best i can.' that was what i said earlier - you seem confident that your doing your best - there's no arguing with that.

You say that you've had advice from 'a variety of solicitors and agencies' though, that's quite strange - I wonder why so many. It suggests that there's a bit more in the background - most divorces don't involve a multiple of 'agencies'.

Anyway I hope it works out for the best for your daughter OP and for your relationship to in the long run.

No. Most divorces do not. However i am pro active in dds welfare and have sought advice at various points.

There is nothing more to it than that.

Withholding contact for no proven reason is not looked upon favourably by the courts..so if i did go down that route in the long term id be shooting myself in the foot and severing the chance of ever co parenting amicabally, which wouldnt be in dds best interests at all and is likely to leave dd with mental scars.

Also, its not just at the point of divorce that people seek out this info. Gingerbread are great for all kinds of lone parent advice, and have been very helpful in various situations

OP, when you talk about your daughter and her relationship with her father, you actually sound like a woman making excuses for emotional abuse. I bet the way you minimise and excuse his behaviour towards your DD is exactly the language you used to minimise and excuse his abuse towards you.
The things you say are contradictory; you keep saying he's not abusive and loves her, etc. ... and then describe unacceptable behaviour towards her from him. His emotional insensitivity is appalling.

Also, the way you describe his attitude towards her - I dont think he realises she is a person with her own thoughts - describes the mindset of a misogynist and an abuser. That way of thinking is exactly what will have led him to choose to abuse you.

You are letting your daughter have contact with a domestic violence perpetrator, who scares her so much that she daren't ask for a drink, and wails at the thought of staying with him, who doesn't believe, accept or understand that she is a real human being, who punishes her for having emotions - you are, between you, teaching a young girl that her needs and feelings do not matter and must always come second place to a man's needs and wants, no matter what a brute he is. In other words, she is being trained up to be a future adult victim of abuse. You are teaching her, as much as he is, that she doesn't matter and must let a man be however he likes to her. All your cuddling and so on mean jack shit in comparison to the damage being done to her by this. For someone who keeps saying she is very emotionally responsive to her daughter, I'm seeing very little evidence of that. You don't make damage like that better with cuddles, you ensure the damage doesn't happen, full stop.

I know you believe your hands are tied, but let's not be silly here - you know full well that this is a really bad thing, and that's why you've posted here. All your defending of yourself and him is just your guilt and fear at facing the truth talking. And by 'this', I don't just mean this long contact, but contact at all. If he's too horrible and dangerous to be in your life, why is he fine to be in your child's life?! Being her biological father doesn't magically mean he has the right to upset your child this way.

The way you describe her clinging to you like a limpet and so on are clear signs of a child who is emotionally disturbed. Perhaps because he's not hitting her, or being as bad as he was to you, you're allowing yourself to believe that he's just a bit of a crap father, instead of what is clear and obvious emotional and mental abuse to anyone who isn't in denial about the reality of his behaviour.

And Rebecca came back to explain why she wouldn't apologise. You just make yourself look silly callling her a troll. I imagine you'll call me a troll, or hysterical or picking on you or something. Well, at least my 6ft 3 DH doesn't terrify and upset my child, or see him as less than fully human, ho hum.

Crikey, some really unhinged comments on this thread! Just no link to reality!

The OP has repeatedly said that DD will be fine once she's there!

DD also didn't want to go to granny's house last year - is everyone screaming blue murder and saying that the OP should stop contact with said granny?

And everyone shouts. He's probably worse than most but better than many.

PlantsAndFlowers it was all fine then the DD wouldn't be clinging non-stop to her mother for three days afterwards - it's a a bit sad that you imply that it's ok for 8 year-olds to be scared of their fathers, 'He's probably worse than most but better than many.' - I don't think that makes anything ok, why should any young child be forced into that situation.

Because the OP says she will be fine when she's there. His wife is nice. He does craft stuff with her so he clearly isn't an ogre.

He has shown he cares about her as he has changed jobs to be near her. The fact that he isn't touchy feely isn't a reason to stop contact.

OP I know you have received advice and it sounds like arcadia is very knowledgeable. I do agree though it's hard to give advice over the Internet and there will be particular facts in every case that will make each different. It's so sad you aren't able to access your own independent advice.

FWIW the law is an ass IMHO and I think I would do it differently TBH but I am quite confrontational, not always in a good way, with a loathing towards government bureaucracy that doesn't give a shit about children's welfare. Particulary with a system that says an 8 year old mature sounding girl can't decide herself she doesn't want to see her father. She sounds a lot smarter than all the government agencies and systems saying she is too young to decide.

Anyway you sound much more measured. But you still have tools. I would request a face to face meeting - in a public place with him - to discuss how concerned you are. I would tell him that his behaviour is not acceptable for a father. Because it isn't. He sounds sociopathic - and violent men often are. I would tell him it has to improve or you will have to sort access out formally. He has to understand that shouting isn't acceptable.

I would speak to the school now. Arrange some counselling - anything objective - to record your concerns now in case you need the court order - and to ensure more physical abuse isn't taking place.

None of this should cost money. But get your ducks in a row.

You know what I think? He is a shite of a man. He is cold and withdrawn emotionally. He might not be physically damaging her but this doesn't bode well for the future and her relationship with him. As her mother, if you feel in the long term it's less damaging to have a relationship with this man, and suffer the damage from that, then I do think your current course if action is right. But if I was a betting woman, I would suggest your daughter would will want zero contact with this loathsome excuse for a father by the time she is 18.

I do feel for you. You sound utterly fed up and caught in a corner and a victim of an utterly shit system. But please don't give up yet.

I agree withoohdaddypig and many other posters with good advice upthread. OP, stop hiding behind what the lawyers are saying. This has fuck all to do with the law, it is about your dd who is unhappy and suffering. You know something is very wrong, otherwise you would not have started this thread.

The law is not designed to ensure that children are happy and thriving. That right there is down to their parents, in this case YOU. Doing nothing and then saying the lawyers said there's nothing you can do is just...I have no words. It is your first duty as a mother to protect your daughter. Lawyers and courts are there to solve legal problems, they are not there to give parenting advice and help you forge strong mother-daughter bonds. Why would you leave your dd to suffer based on what a 'family lawyer' says ? You think in law school family lawyers are trained about the emotional needs of young girls? Why would you view solicitors as the best source of advice in this situation?

If you seek counselling, I assure you no trained counsellor will advice you to break the law, so there is no need to say that because of the law you will do nothing to protect your dd, that's just ridiculous. That's what is making some posters angry with you. You have to fight your dd's corner, no mother should view this as optional and then say well, it's the lawyer who told me to do fuck all.

Your DD is upset. You are her mother, please, please listen to her. She needs you, if you don't listen to her, who else will?

In the forces? That's all right then ....

Again, i do love that people say to go outside the law.

I cant and, if i did, i couldnt afford a solicitior and the case would be to my own detriment, risking more contact.

she clings to me in between the long summer stay as she misses me. Shes with me 26 days out of 30 usually and we are very close. Shea just re establishing a bond.

He isnt abusive to dd, hes a cold man. Like it with everyone. Ive been told by agencies its a parenting difference and theres nothing that can be done, i have to accept it. Im not above the law.

And frankly, the coments telling me im training her to be a dv victim... fuck off. You have no idea how i parent, where my stance is on anything like that. So just shut up with the accusations.

God what a horrible thread. People have been unnecessarily harsh with you op, sorry you have had such a hard time.

Do the agencies you mentioned offer any other support that you can access now ?

people are being very naive and/or refusing to believe there isn't something you're not telling us when the fact of the matter is, if any of those people found themselves in the same situation they'd very quickly realise the reality - a bit of a crappy parent isn't reason enough to stop contact and you'd be wasting time and money by applying to Court!

oh and my dd's dad did once refuse to bring her back after contact due to 'concerns' about me (whole different thread) - resulting in a power of arrest on the Court order meaning that if he did it again, the police could do something about it.

I can call gingerbread at any time, anyone can.
i might give them a bell with regards to how to make this easier for dd...but i have an idea im going to try first and try to get her dad involved too.

Can I suggest next time you want to post something like this go to the lone parent board.

My DS cried everyday I left nursery till the day he left but I knew he stopped crying before I was outside the door but out of sight. I know he loved nursery he just didn't want to be without me.

This sounds similar. You Ex may not be dad of the year but nothing worthy of stopping contact.

At 8 1/2 she should be able to go and help herself to a drink not ask.

I hope you get to speak to your dd today and that she has settled ok. I think you are doing the right thing in talking to gingerbread today and sometimes being too close to a situation it is hard to trust your own judgement.

I am really saddened at this thread when someone has asked for advice at some of the vile attacks. I hope you have managed to pick through and get some good advice.

OP sorry you're getting such a hard time!

YANBU to feel bad when DD was upset. Even if you know it's for the best you don't want to see your children upset.

I also agree with you that altering contact in any way would be ridiculous right now. It does indeed sound like a difference in parenting style. Being so close to your DD, she must see the differences with ex as being greater than they'd normally be. She's happy enough for a weekend though so I wouldn't be panicking.

The one thing I would say though is to have a word about arguing in front of DD. Ex didn't do himself any favours there in your DDs eyes!

I have a different perspective here for you OP, from when I was about 8. My sister and I lived with our Father and stepmother during the week and spent the weekends with Mother. One weekend when I was about 8 I decided I didn't want to go. I cried and sobbed and the silly fools gave in. My sister went, I stayed at home. I was bored stiff. I regretted my decision about an hour after it was too late to go. So you see, your DD may be unhappy at leaving you, but I think you did the right thing.

Before anyone says that it wasn't the same situation, I was scared of mothers new DH, mostly because he was a sarcastic bastard, and she (still is) emotionally unable to connect.

Starlight - I think that one of the reasons why DD is afraid to ask for a drink, is because the last time she got herself one, her father shouted at her. Parents with a military background IME expect their children to ask permission for everything.

I have just read the whole thread mainly like this Some people on this thread should be ashamed.

Is this what asking for help and advice on MN has come to?

Hope you are ok OP.

Op Im so shocked by some of the replies on here, they are terrible

I have been in your situation but I had 2 Dcs, being in the court system was hugely helpful for my DD, didnt make much difference for my DS but didnt do any harm

PM me if you want as I wouldnt share any details on this board if my life depended on it

I hope you are feeling better today and get to speak to your DD and that she has settled and is having a nice time

im not really ok.

standing up to him and all that happened yesterday has just seen that he starts trying to assert dominance over me, because hes angry.

so, im getting a ton of shit thrown at me.

it sounds so silly. DD has got really long hair, it needs a cut but she doesnt want it cut. Hes been threatening to get it done but she doesnt want it done with him as last time this happened it got cut all wonky. She told my mum she didnt want it done with him and she told me. I told him not to and we have an appt booked for the end part of this week.
Hasnt been mentioned since. This morning ive just had a text saying hes going to get her hair cut and i dont get a say. Ive tried to explain to him this isnt going to help, that with what happened yesterday he should think about why DD feels the way she does, and that things like this are part of the problem. She has said no, im taking care of it, and yet he just bulldoses all over it. I get a text back saying ' fuck off you dont rule me'

Im going to speak to DD at 1. If shes not ok im just going to go and get her.

obvs this thread hasnt helped either.