To feel awful for sending DD to her dads when she didnt want to go?

[Needsmorecake]

I feel awful.

Shes there for 6 days, she doesnt want to go, she has told me that she doesnt want to go, I know she will be fine onces shes there, and its more the thought of not being here with me.... but, well, she went off wailing.

Her dad isnt great any any kind of parenting that has any feelings, she tells me she cant talk to him, she doesnt even feel able to ask for a drink when shes with him. I have told him this lots of times, but, im the ex wife, so it never goes down well.

He picked her up from school today, DD had had a meltdown last night about not wanting to go and said hes scary and she cant talk to him. I told him, so he knew and could maybe do something to address it. Rather than getting home with her and trying to have a reassuring chat, he shouted at her in the car and told her she was silly. she was in tears when i met her at home, she was cross with me for telling him ( she told me in private, and i explained i told him so he could try and fix it)
He then had a go at me in front of her because i brought her a skateboard, or rather, i let her get one with her own money, as she has too many toys.... then he told her it was a good thing as shes not fallen off and hurt herself yet as shes too scared to do that, so maybe she will do with this. That makes Literally NO sense to me.

DD started to cry again, and i gave her a cuddle, sat with her and told her all the nice things she would do and what we could do when she came back and that i would call her tomorrow. He got all cross and said its not necessary for me to call and i was babying her and making it worse.

We got out to the car and DD whispered at me that she didnt want to go, i still made her, she got int he car and was wailing, really sobbing, and he shouted that this was all my fault.

I now feel dreadful.

Shes 8.5

did i do the right thing? i feel like ive broken her trust a bit.
Shes usually fine with weekends, but anything longer upsets her.

I would never, ever recommend a woman in the OP's situation ask on MN for advice and support.

Some of the posts on here are disgraceful and there is no way the OP can do right.

She is either colluding with the abuse of her daughter or treating the poor father as a monster.

How easy is it to just stop contact exactly? If a father is committed to seeing a child and has the resources to go to law?

Do the courts tend to look favourably on women who cut off contact suddenly because a child cries and resists going to the NRP for a week?

The OP is in a very difficult situation and is getting a kicking instead of balanced and practical advice.

OP get this moved out of AIBU. Unfortunately I am not sure that the Relationships board would be much better.

Is there a Single Parent's board?

I'm flabbergasted at the morons suggesting that children are manipulative. This child is screaming out for someone to help and take her out of the situation and some people think the girl is just trying to ruin her mothers week

OP, it was by your very own words that people are saying your daughter is being emotionally abused. This thread has come from you, all of these strangers on the Internet (who you are minimising) haven't just suddenly started sending you random messages.
Your original (and some subsequent posts) describe abuse and you full well know that as you've been in touch with several services to discuss it and to see whether you can keep your daughter away.

Let's just say that you did follow your Daughter's lead (and pleading) and supported her in not visiting her father, there are only a few outcomes and none of them are going to see you receive any kind of punishment.

It may be that in a few weeks your daughter misses her Dad and you were proved right that it was more about missing you than being afraid of her father. So he resumes contact and you all live happily ever after.

Or it may be that she doesn't want to go ever again and her father doesn't pursue it (or maybe does in the beginning to get at you but drops it when you don't bite).

Or he may pursue it through the courts and get visitation (they aren't going to take her from you!!) and you will just be in the same position you are now.

Other than more abuse I can't see what you are worried about legally.
We all know you have concerns about her going there or you wouldn't have stopped her last year, you wouldn't be posting here and you wouldn't be human if you didn't.
This man abused you, if you weren't afraid that he could do the same to your daughter then there would be something wrong with you.

He's showing the signs, your daughter is showing the signs but you are only letting yourself half see it. You know deep down that you shouldn't force her to go.

Of course you aren't unreasonable for feeling upset about this-but that's because you know sending her was the wrong thing. But you are filled with anxiety as to stop it from happening you have to face the bully and you feel alone because you think the court system won't support you.

You are taking a beating on here as you are hiding from the truth and your own feelings on this and it's frustrating for outsiders.

You know that you have to face the bully one last time though.
My Mother didn't face the bully and now I'm NC as she didn't protect me or my siblings. I grew up feeling sorry for her but now all I feel is resentment.

Stand up to the bully and stand up for your daughter. Please

carryon I assume your moron comment was aimed at me! Well thank you but I am not a moron and kids are manipulative and anyone who thinks otherwise is the moron!

She may be calling out for help or she may just not want to go because she will miss her mum and knows that blaming daddy being scary will push buttons.

We cannot know as we ccannot talk to the child, the op knows her daughter and is convinced she is not at risk of harm other than a man who doesn't understand emotional issues because of his military background. Having spent years dealing with soldiers I cam vouch that there a re a great many who are similar to the om's exh. It's not abuse it's just not being able to switch between being a soldier and a dad with ease.

Op the letter from her sounds good and if his new wife is good with her perhaps you, her and dd can sit and discuss so that he can be approached from all angles and his wife can help mediate wheb dd is there?

As a family lawyer I can tell you that you were right to send her off and that contact needs to go ahead, and the Courts would view it that it is important that she has a relationship with both parents. At 8.5 she is not old enough to have her views fully taken into account. When she is older she will 'vote with her feet'. The only exception is clear incidences of abuse, generally serious enough to get Social Services involved. You did the right thing OP. You could threaten to stop the contact though if he speaks to her harshly at handovers and the onus would be on him to bring an application to reinstate the contact. You could try mediation to tackle your concerns?

wheres, i think you talk a lot of sense.

DD has been in my bed a lot, this started last year when we moved and its kind of continued, now when i make her go back in hers, she will usually go for a night and then make up some kind of reason why she needs to be in with me. She cries, tells me shes scared in her room, then smiles when she gets in my bed.

Mostly i think its because hes different to me, he doesnt meet her emotional needs at all, and might be scary sometimes in that forces sort of way ( which you are right, lots of them cant turn off, hes so institutionalized ) so, she wants to stay here and get warm cuddles in my bed.

She is usually more than happy and excited to go on a weekend, if she were not and was crying every time, then i would think sometihng is up, but that is not the case at all.

im not hiding from any truth, im not quite sure why anyone would think that. ive been accused of not caring, only wanting my own free time and being a shit mother.... none of these are in any way true.. ergo im not hiding from any truth.

Thank you arcadia.

I knew i was in the right, legally speaking.

I know where i stand, ive done enough looking into this, enough trying to find out what i can and cant do, and how best to go ahead with this for DD.

mediation wont work, only because of the dv issues and his total refusal to listen to a single thing i have to say.

I know DD will vote with her feet when shes older, not that i want her to, but, i understand she will. As i understand, the age that her feelings will be considered, are about 12?

Course, being right and not feeling shit about it are two different things.

About 12, that's right. Essentially the law would say he IS her father and you as the mother have no more right to prevent him seeing her than he does of preventing her from seeing you. Even an imperfect father is deemed to be better than an absent one. People may be horrified to know that even father's who have been in prison or have abused their children get some form of contact usually, albeit usually supervised in those circumstances.

Any mother pleading 'emotional abuse' without back up evidence from professionals e.g. School or health visitors would be ripped to shreds in court and could even risk care of the child being switched to the father for their failure to facilitate and encourage the relationship.

That is not to say that some fathers don't give up in the end.

I have acted on both sides numerous times so am just stating the law, I am not biased to one gender.

carryon my own children can play me and DH off against each other.

Ds has cried and begged and pleaded not to go to school, yet he is getting a lot of support with school work, is popular with his peers and seems to like school. He wants to be at home with me.

I sometimes shout at my DC, they are not scared of me as I hug, kiss, play with them so they see me being loving and fun 99% of the time.

Of course you do needs when you see your child upset, but as parents we spend half our time getting our kids to do things they don't want to do, like go to school etc. that is part of the job! I realise if he was abusive to you that makes it even harder. Good that his new wife is nice though.
has she got any support at school from a teacher or counsellor or is she fine usually? (Sorry. Haven't read whole thread).

the assumptions that some people make about situations like OP's are amazing. You can tell who has (fortunately) never experienced anything like this. as if you can just go to Court and get contact stopped on the basis of anything less than physical abuse basically. and where exactly is OP supposed to get the money for a solicitor from?

Cross post with Icansee, exactly what I have heard judges saying to mums in court, would you let your child stay off school if they didn't want to go? That is how they view it until early teens.

arcadia there is a history of DV. DD is now pleading not to go? Would the courts not acnowledge that as sufficiently serious?

This whole thread has been an eye opener for me in terms of the approach of the legal system.

arcadia, yeah, thats what i thought.
Im fairly clued up on the subject, having spoken to so many agencies about it over the years.

DD is usually fine at school, there is a bit of a spate of girls friendships going arwry at the moment, and they have all seen the family liason person so they can talk to her, she has her feelings book too. She talks very openly to me ( and i have to listen to hours of waffle over he said she said) so, im sure she feels supported. The wider family on my side all take time and tell her she can talk to them too, she talks to my mum about things sometimes too. Shes also starting cubs in the next week or so too, so more positive stuff for her.

The new wife is nice to her, i dont always agree with her, but she puts DD first and does lots with her and thats all i can ask. Shes had days off her own job to help out when DD's been sick and things, so thats really quite good.

needsmorecake it sounds like she knows "being scared" means she gets her way and is applying it to her dad too which is about right for her age! If it startedwhen yyou moved it could be that she has been severely unsettled by the change and has latched onto the continuous aspect in her life (you) as a security blanket.

I do think you need to tackle her father though and he needs to remember that she is a very young little girl who needs reassurance and isn't one of his squaddies!

As arcadia says preventing contact on the information you have given here would see a court slap your wrists and reinstate it without a hesitation. A friend of mine has kids who are emotionally abused and has this backed up by cahms, the school and a counsellor and the courts still force contact with their dad and without supervision so those saying stop contact need to remember that unless they have a law degree then they need to shut the hell up

daddypig, no, they would not, not unless the child was at risk, or the father was using the child to get to and abuse the mother, and there was documentation to support this, police reports etc.

An eye opener it might have been for you and a lot of people, though i expect im not going to get any appology from posters who were giving me a right kicking earlier, even though i was doing exactly what i should be doing.

and yeah, course it breaks my heart when dd is crying in the back of his car doing ' i heart you' and blowing me kisses, course if i could barricade her in with me and keep her forever, then i would. but that wouldnt be right, no court would let that happen, let alone it wouldnt be in DD's best interests at all.

No oohdaddy. DV not enough in itself. Usually means that handovers are done by neutral intermediaries though rather than directly between the parties. May be worth considering here as F was obviously being rude to OP at handover. The problem is DD is saying she doesn't want to go to her mother. If she raised it with a teacher or was showing signs of stress and disclosed any abuse to a third party then it could be investigated further.

The legal system has to start from a neutral stance with both parties and won't take a mother's word for it, (a) because many mothers try to stop contact for their own reasons (even though often unconsciously/projecting but sometimes vindictive) and (b) because what a mother says a child says is not enough, as the child may be making something up or just saying what they think that parent wants to hear. That is why it has to be reported to a third party professional. CAFCASS (Court advisory service) used to investigate such matters but their budget massively cut and the courts are also under huge pressure. A proper investigation would be very costly to carry out.

whereisthelight - indeed. i agree. which is why i sent her off. All the advice i have had from all the agencies is about how to support DD in my time, which, tbh, is 98% of the time anyway, as to lesten his lacking parenting skills.
Again, which is probably why shes ok with a weekend but a week is too long.

I will and do continue to talk to him about DD, it always falls on deaf ears, but im trying to do my best and trying to help. I cant make him listen though.
and, he will end up with the relationship that he has cultivated.

You sound very sensible and a great mum needsmore

Why not prioritise getting your DD a mobile phone OP, given the situation?
Don't understand why you would hesitate about this given her reluctance to stay with her father and his harsh manner.

Boy, this has been a helpful thread! I've had to do this since my eldest two were 3 & 4. It's the most awful feeling in the world to leave them crying and have to walk away.
I know what you mean about different parenting techniques - my ex was strict and uncaring towards my children, but it didn't mean he didn't love them. He did. Does, deep down. He just has a hard time showing it.
At her age you can explain this to your daughter. I sat mine down and told them Daddy loved them, but had a grumpy outside because he hadn't had a daddy of his own to teach him how to do it. They seemed to 'get' this. (They're only 11 months apart)
I couldn't have stopped contact as he would have taken me to court. The good thing is that it does get easier. As children mature they become more used to the situation and adapt to the rules of each home much better.
The sad thing is that he has driven them away. My dd (19) sees him maybe twice a year at best. My son (18) feels sorry for him and sees him every few weeks.
I think at the end of the day you know your daughter is safe, in a home where she's loved (albeit in a different way), and is having fun.
I would suggest you stop beating yourself up about something you have no control over and make it extra special when she comes back. :)

because i dont have the money.

I can upgrade in august, she can have my old one then.

Arcadia, thank you, after the kicking ive had on this thread, that means a lot. I do try, i try to put DD first, ive had to suck it up and get on with it more times that anyone could have wished for, all for doing it right by her. Ive had him and his new wife at her birthday party in my house, to make her feel like everyone is included, i go out of my way to make sure she feels secure and loved.

And yes, i had a wobble when she said she didnt want to go. Breaks my heart.

needaholiday- thanks. i wasnt. i really did get a kicking and it made me feel awful and made me cry. Noone of those are going to come abck and say sorry though, are they. so.... meh.

mimi - im going to. though i have been accused of bribing her with treats for my own gains..... we have a lovely few days planned when she gets back.

Its really hard, and i think, as this thread shows, most people havent got a clue how these things work and the legality of it all.
I should imagine DD will do the same when shes older, though i dont wish that to happen at all.

Ill have a talk to her when she comes home about how he is, and then promise her my phone in a few months.

www.tesco.com/direct/tesco-mobile-nokia-106-black/156-6028.prd?pageLevel=&skuId=156-6028

This PAYG phone is £9. I have this phone when I go out just to phone a taxi. Really easy to use.