To feel awful for sending DD to her dads when she didnt want to go?

[Needsmorecake]

I feel awful.

Shes there for 6 days, she doesnt want to go, she has told me that she doesnt want to go, I know she will be fine onces shes there, and its more the thought of not being here with me.... but, well, she went off wailing.

Her dad isnt great any any kind of parenting that has any feelings, she tells me she cant talk to him, she doesnt even feel able to ask for a drink when shes with him. I have told him this lots of times, but, im the ex wife, so it never goes down well.

He picked her up from school today, DD had had a meltdown last night about not wanting to go and said hes scary and she cant talk to him. I told him, so he knew and could maybe do something to address it. Rather than getting home with her and trying to have a reassuring chat, he shouted at her in the car and told her she was silly. she was in tears when i met her at home, she was cross with me for telling him ( she told me in private, and i explained i told him so he could try and fix it)
He then had a go at me in front of her because i brought her a skateboard, or rather, i let her get one with her own money, as she has too many toys.... then he told her it was a good thing as shes not fallen off and hurt herself yet as shes too scared to do that, so maybe she will do with this. That makes Literally NO sense to me.

DD started to cry again, and i gave her a cuddle, sat with her and told her all the nice things she would do and what we could do when she came back and that i would call her tomorrow. He got all cross and said its not necessary for me to call and i was babying her and making it worse.

We got out to the car and DD whispered at me that she didnt want to go, i still made her, she got int he car and was wailing, really sobbing, and he shouted that this was all my fault.

I now feel dreadful.

Shes 8.5

did i do the right thing? i feel like ive broken her trust a bit.
Shes usually fine with weekends, but anything longer upsets her.

OP I feel for you. My dd says same things about her dad. The thing is she would not go without crying and screaming and having to be dragged off me she didn't feel listed to or nurtured by him she was very aware that he prioritised his life over her. Eventually we both decided not to force over nights and I would say it was not a good move.

Dd is 6 and she often complains about her dad for this and that and sometimes it's justified other times it possibly isn't but I encourage her to talk to him informs of me if she preferred and I don't usually get involved as he will eventually see things reasonably. But dd does know that there isn't really a long term place in his home for her. She has never had a bedroom, clothes toys etc, despite me from the beginning making it clear these things would make all the difference.

I feel that forcing the overnights is what we should have done but there was a mixture of him not being committed to being patient and me not being emotionally strong enough to deal with dds melt downs. I think you should just stick with it for now and see how things go. But maybe you do need to tackle him on how he talks to her/ shouts at her.

nothing has happened to make her not want to go, other than she just doesnt want to leave me or her home for a week,thats all. We are very close.

No. He shouted at her and intimidated her. That is something happening to make her not want to go.

Did she say she was afraid of her nana? No. She cried because she didn't want to leave you. She said she was afraid of her father shouting. That he didn't listen to her. Don't compare two scenarios that are obviously very different.

Don't stick your head in the sand to deny what's going on because you're afraid to face it. It's not your fault if she's in an abusive situation. It's not. But you need to fight for her.

OP could you try getting you, exp, his wife and dd together and giving dd the platform to talk this over with all of you. Maybe they need to hear a few things from each other about how they are BOTH feeling with the support of you and his wife.

[Rebecca] your remarks are really not very nice we all know it's the internet and faceless but the OP is a real person who already feels shitty and doesn't need you sticking the boot in.

Oh Needsmorecake I feel for you I really do. Its understandable that you have become defensive at the very blunt responses, but perhaps take another look at what you said in your initial post.

She tells me she cant talk to him, she doesnt even feel able to ask for a drink when shes with him

DD whispered at me that she didnt want to go

DD had had a meltdown last night about not wanting to go and said hes scary and she cant talk to him

She is telling you loud and clear how unhappy he makes her, please listen to her However much you want to blame his height for things, however much you want to believe that she is only upset because she is going for 6 days, she is trying to tell you something very different. This man assaulted you, its just not possible for you to judge what happens with his new partner. His behaviour is distressing your DD and its for you to do something about it.

My XH was violent. My DD said he scared her. I had to listen - it was my job to keep her safe (emotionally and physically). He took me to court for access but was denied it and as it turns out, she hasnt seen him for 16 years now - her choice. Please think long and hard about what you do next.

I will never apologise, I am sure if you could you would edit the comments you made in your op to make it seem more normal kid missing their mum type situation.

"DD had had a meltdown last night about not wanting to go and said hes scary and she cant talk to him"

"he shouted at her in the car and told her she was silly. she was in tears when i met her at home"

"He then had a go at me in front of her because i brought her a skateboard,"

"He got all cross and said its not necessary for me to call and i was babying her and making it worse. "

"DD whispered at me that she didnt want to go, i still made her"

"but, when i explain, he wont listen and gets angry."

I feel so sorry for your daughter but it seems you still accept abuse from your ex and now you are allowing it to go onto your daughter. Your daughter is not an 5 year old missing her mummy, she is 8 years old and is trying to tell you how she is feeling but you do not care. She is also not telling you the full story but whatever hey.

Ooh I seemed to miss the point that he has assaulted you in the past. That would make me view things a little differently.

NO COURT WILL STOP CONTACT DUE TO SHOUTING

fucks sake.

shitting hell, but my god, i dont know how many more times i can say that, or say ive seen a bloody womens aid solicitor who said i can do nothing and no court would do anything,

so will the posts about how fucking awful i am, just stop. just damn stop.

If her head teacher shouted, she would be intimidated, if her teacher shouted she would be intimidated, if her nana shouted she would be intimidated. it does not mean she is being abused, she feels not listened to, but shes not being abused.

If she didn't care, she wouldn't be posting on MN saying she feels dreadful and asking for advice! Of course she cares.

You poor thing OP. It is so hard not to be demonised for reducing/refusing contact, and I know that you think you are helping your daughter's relationship with her father.

The thing is, you are not the one hurting their relationship; he is. If he cannot modulate his tone/manner enough to make an 8 year old feel loved and safe then she shouldn't have to go, and certainly not for any longer than she wants to.

Your post really spoke to me; my father is also forces and is very emotionally distant and bullying, in a way that might be ok with a robust, confident teenager but had me, as a 6-12yo girl, terrified. He lived overseas so every time we had to go and visit him it was for 2 weeks or more. My mother kept up the visits because he had her terrified too she wanted us to have a relationship. Much like your daughter, I could never articulate why I was so scared of him and when my mother finally stopped contact (by which time I was 12) she was accused of doing it to be manipulative etc.

I do wish that she had stood up for me years earlier, and taken my feelings more seriously.

kiaora - i have listened and have spoken at lenght with gingerbread, the national dv helpline, womens aid and a womens aid solicitor. all were adamant dd was not being abused and that there was nothing i could do. so, im going to take that advice rather than some people from the internet who dont know.

she didnt want to go, no.
she said last night she didnt want to go and he doesnt listen to her and when he shouts she is scared.

that does not mean he is abusing her.

it means she didnt want to go and doesnt like it when she shouts.

Im going to leave the thread now, perhaps i should have posted in lone parents where people have more of a understanding of this kind of stuff.

Look, I get the courts have you backed into a corner. But you had to stop contact for DD's safety last year.

If you can't do anything to reduce contact at least get her counseling so she has somewhere safe to express her feelings. This does two things: It helps her deal with her emotions so that she knows that what he's doing isn't her fault and she doesn't internalize it, and if the counselor sees that abuse is going on, he can help advocate for her as an impartial party.

it was more because of my safety to be honest, and i wasnt happy for DD to go off with him while be was being how he was to me.

The situation was too volatile.

She has a feelings book anyway, which was the advice from school as shes ( well, the whole class of girls) are having friendship issues at the moment.

so, lots of work is being done in school, and at home about other peoples behaviour and how it makes us feel and what we can do. SO, shes fine. She doesnt think its her fault, she thinks its just how he is, which is why she doesnt want to go for a week, but is fine with a weekend.

Wow there are some rude insensitive arseholes on this thread!!!

needsmorecake kids are very good at manipulation ofus paparents and making us feel guilty! She probably thinks she is missing out on something you are doing. I was terrified of my dad shouting as a kid, like your exh my dad isomer 6ft, he wasn't abusive he just wasn't good at dealing with an emotional girl because he didn'tjknow how to "talk" to me and would get frustrated that was upset and he couldn't calm me down. He would get angry at himself and this would manifest in more shouting.

Your dd will be fine once she settles. My 10yo dss still complains that he misses his mum and wants to go home after a few days as we are stricter here and he hates not being allowed to play bloody minecraft 24/7!

You are getting a really rough rise here and people are projecting an awful lot of crap onto you!! And I agree Rebevca2014 owes you an apology and if she can't she frankly needs to fuck off because her attacks are highly unproductive and abusive themselves

Hope your dd is ok when you talk to her tomorrow!

I have had a similar situation, but DD revealed the shouting and fear to a member of staff at school. I was called to school to meet with the child protection officer who said that she felt this was verbal abuse. I was given a choice either I stopped contact or social services would be called. I agreed to stop contact and then took legal advice. My solicitor agreed with the child protection officer's feeling that this was abuse and my DD currently only as supervised contact with her father.
He has procrastinated, thrown his toys out of the pram and showered me with abusive e-mails. There is other behaviour that is a source of concern to. 5 months later he still has not taken me to court.

Firstly, OP, you're not awful at all. You obviously feel horrid about this, try not to take the harsher comments to heart.

I can remember being small and not wanting to go and stay at my dad's for half term. Looking back, I just wanted the comfort of my own home and to be with my mum who I was more comfortable with. Her not wanting to go doesn't mean he is abusing her, as I'm sure you know.

Does your daughter talk to her father about how she feels? Sorry if you've already been asked and answered that. Maybe her being able to say something or even write him a note/email might make him see he needs to be a bit less shouty and a bit more considerate of how she feels rather than him seeing it as just you being a naggy ex-wife (which you're not, obviously).

but it's not just shouting, is it - you said yourself he doesn't deal with her emotionally at all. And as she gets older that will become more and more of an issue, so it would surely be a good thing to try to get that sorted sooner rather than later.

I get the whole 'tears but then it's fine' thing - DD says every nursery day that she doesn't want to go, yet clearly has a whale of a time when she's there - but there's no-one there shouting at her or frightening her in any way.

But, I have one question for you - when your XH was subjecting you to abuse - did you tell anyone? Your nearest and dearest? All out in the open and everyone knew? Or was it kept a secret until it all got too much?

I ask that because if it's the latter - how can you possibly know for certain about his DW? How can you absolutely 100% guarantee that she isn't witnessing anything, and is being intimidated into keeping quiet?

I don't say that he is abusing your DD (though his parenting does seem rather - lacking, shall we say), but given your own history it's what I've just outlined that would be my big concern.

Otherwise it would simply be different parenting - not great, but as long as you're certain that he loves her, that his heart's in the right place and he absolutely has her best interests at heart, I think yes, it's probably fine.

I would also say - unless I read it wrongly - you've had advice from one WA solicitor. I would be tempted to get a second opinion - and not minimize or delete anything from what you tell them.

it's easy for anyone to say 'you did the wrong thing by sending her' but I speak from experience when I say social services and Courts don't necessarily see emotional abuse as a big enough issue to stop contact.

Let's hope Rebecca2014 never faces a parenting dilemma and wants advice on MN.

It's bloody hard being a mum and making the correct choices all the time.

She must find that incredibly easy so good luck to her but I know it's never that easy and sometimes difficult choices have to be made.

So easy to dish out advice to another mum who is obviously upset and make her feel totally shit,well done.

also, I've been in your situation, it is awful, you have my sympathy - your poor DD.

OP firstly I'm sorry for the beating you have had on this thread. Not much compassion.

I think you need some proper legal advice. Not from one WA solicitor. Get a feel for how the courts would see this. A history of violence to you. Shouting. DD is now 8 - she is clearly scared. If you want to reduce contact you are going to need to know where you stand legally now.

Definitely get her a mobile - a lifeline to you.

Are ex's parents on the scene? Do they see DD much? Can you communicate with them?

Can you speak to school? Is there a counsellor who could keep the communication open with your DD - perhaps objectively. This will help you identify if there is a problem and also start gathering any evidence for any court hearing now, should it get that far.

I have sympathy for you, I do, but my heart goes out to your DD. I think you must do all you can now to ensure she isn't being damaged. I grew up in a horribly abusive house, although wasn't abused myself. It's so damaging.

Good luck

I'm staggered the courts don't take emotional abuse more seriously. It's as damaging as physical abuse. There was a thread recently about a woman upset by intervention from social services for shouting at her kids which we all resort to sometimes. Yet the courts accept emotional abuse as being acceptable? That's bloody nuts.

Could you email him.

Dear Ex
I am emailing you over concerns about our daughter. She really hates you shouting and not listening to her. I feel that if you continue that your relationship with her will not be a good one.
She is scared of you because of the shouting, I understand that you may have to tell her off for bad behaviour and perhaps we can discuss a way which we will both use.
I really want you and Dd to have a close and loving relationship, however if you continue to shout and make her frightened I will have no choice but to protect her from that and contact will be in a public place with me supervising.

His heart is in the right place. He took DD on holiday at easter, he does lots of craft stuff with her, that i can never be bothered to do :) and he took on an bloody awful, high risk job, to be closer in location to her.

He is a soldier, from a family of soldiers.

His dad was a soldier and was away a lot when he was little, she shouted a lot.

Hes been in the forces lifestyle all his life. His new wife is forces. He just does not know how to deal with little girls.
or civvie life, but thats another matter

I am aware its going to get worse as she gets older, because he hasnt a clue how to parent her, i occassionally send him bits via email, there is a good website by dove on self esteem and young girls. he said he read it, he might have done.. but clearly paid no attention to it.

I might see if she wants to write him a letter, i suspect not, but i can ask her if she wants to, once shes home and feels abit more secure.

Also, i spoke to womens aid AND a womens aid solicitor and a normal solicitor and gingerbread AND national dv helpline, they all say they same so i dont think a second opion is necessary.

I agree with Daddypig and think it might be worth seeking further legal advice given the strength of your DD's feelings.