to be angry that Abu Hamza's wife and family have a better quality of life than my family?

[AgentPink]

I know I am not being unreasonable but this is Mumsnet where the world often seems to exist in a parallel reality where right is wrong and wrong is right, however, I'm feeling pretty angry and depressed this morning and felt like having a vent and this is as good a place as any.

Me and my husband who have worked all our lives, paid loads of tax, limited our children to two (even though we would like more) because it is what we can afford from our wages, live in a shitty, small rented flat with limited security, where the kids are squashed together in one small bedroom, have a worse quality of life than Abu Hamza's wife who has never worked, had 7 children all paid for by benefits and lives in a lovely 5 bedroom, million pound council house in Shepherds Bush.

I just don't get it. How is it possible that the wife and children of someone who wanted to kill people simply because they had a different religion or were gay, hates the country and has never worked a day in her life can have a bigger, better home, security for her kids, free money etc when people who work and do everything "the right way" (i.e. live within their means, don't have more children than they can afford) have to live in total insecurity, will never be able to afford their own home, let alone a £1.25 million one provided free from the state. She will probably even have a more secure retirement than us. It's a complete joke and punch in the guts.

I'm sorry, I am just feeling really really upset by this and feel like telling my kids not to bother working hard as you will end up at the back of the queue as the least deserving.

I am sure that there are jobs that Mrs Hanza can do like anyone else. I have no idea whether she has a criminal record or not. She might have a clean slate and her DBS check come back as clean as a whistle. Its unfair to suggest that she is automatically a criminal just because her husband is.

There are plenty jobs out there that don't require a DBS check. She could become a cleaner or work in a shop. In Shepherd's bush there aren't many candidates for minimum wage jobs.

If she does commit a crime then she will lose her council house as she will be put in jail and her children will be put into foster care. Is that what you really want?

Nancy who knows, but the point is that on a benefits application form it doesn't ask if you quite fancy a shag with Abu Hamza and therefore it is irrelevant to the amount of benefits that can be claimed.

Yes I would just love to swap places with his wife who may have had little day in who she married not only have I been in a marriage to someone who put my children in serious danger I have to explain to my children what their father did and no matter what they will still love him and miss him

Not seen a brown people/Muslim bashing thread for a few days now

Say in who she married ......

She might not gave been abused by her husband. Muslim women aren't all down trodden victims.

In this instance...I really feel so many refugee families who are forcibly sent back to dreadful regimes, these families are lovely hardworking people who apparently are too expensive to be to be even granted the crappiest council flat in glasgow. They are desperate to live in a peaceful country, educate their children and contribute.

These other fuckers are frankly taking the piss. I've no idea why Abu Hamza's wife should get any more sympathy than these families who are being evicted from the uK every day I've no idea.

Only on mumsnet.

You know what? Be glad your children are not Abu Hamzas kids.
Be glad your children have a different upbringing.

I know I am glad I am not his wife, and having borne him 7 kids.

I look at this thread, and it makes me really happy with my lot.

Most of his kids are currently residing at Her Majesty's Pleasure.

I think the point OP is making is about undeserving people who don't contribute to the country, on the contrary they don't care about it - yet they have all their needs taken care of by 'our' tax, when our own needs are not met, or met by making huge sacrifices. Why do people not have to 'contribute' to have benefits?

Very valid feeling. Makes my blood boil.

YANBU to get annoyed but it pisses me off when people say 'never worked a day in their life' just because someone is a stay home parent!!!! I can tell you it is knackering with a large family even when they are older!

Or indeed when the majority of them are in prison Jellybeans totally knackering.

"Most of his kids are currently residing at Her Majesty's Pleasure."

Then surely the bedroom tax will kick in and she will have to move into smaller accomodiation.

Lots of people have never worked a day in their lives and have big families. The present govement is trying to address this with the bedroom tax, benefits cap and being tougher on welfare claiments.

None of us have never met Mrs Hazma, yet we are judging her.

Shepherd's Bush house prices are crazy. The Hamza family have a 5 bed terrace, that may or may not be in good nick inside. An ordinary, if spacious, house of which there are millions all over the country, but which in that corner of West London now sell for over £1 mil (but probably not £1.5mil, that's Daily Mail over-egging).

Someone tell me what that woman has done wrong though. Not worked? Well, if she were white British would it be such a problem that she'd been a stay at home parent? I wonder. If all her children are now of secondary school age, then in an deal world she would be trying to work outside the home, as much for herself as anything else. The problem is, she's the wife of Abu Hamza. Rightly or wrongly, NO ONE IS GOING TO GIVE THIS WOMAN A JOB.

Someone tell me what her views are? Anyone actually know? How did she meet Abu Hamza, how old was she when she married him? Because we know nothing about her circumstances or who she is as a person. We can't assume that she has the same attitudes as her husband, and we can't assume she doesn't.

3 of the 7 kids are in prison. Does that reflect on her? Yes of course, to some degree it must do. It certainly reflects on her appalling husband.

Fortunately, at the moment we still have a benefits system based on facts not prejudice. Fulfil this criteria, receive this amount of support, regardless of who you are or what your husband may have done. It's not a perfect system but it's better than the system based on judgement, bias and envy that some people would seem to prefer.

Why would the bedroom tax require this woman to move?

You have no idea what her income is. She could enjoy regular shopping trips to Dubai, be head to toe in Prada for all we know. The bedroom tax could well be inconsequential for this family.

She may be in penury, she may weep fir her sons and hate her husband.

But we do not extend the same generosity of spirit to other families who cannot afford the bedroom tax. Or who are are not granted leave to remain in this country. We regularly send back 16 year olds, elderly folk and split up families through our immigration policies but no one cares.

I would think that if she was white/British (or any colour/British) she would be supported by her DH/DP if she wanted to be the SAHP of older DC. A single parent would have to work.....She is a single parent her colour has nowt to do with it.

I agree with Select

It's not personal, the fact that she is Mrs Hamza is irrelevant.

She is entitled to live in that council house because she has been found eligible to do so. If she is no longer eligible presumably she will have to move to somewhere else.

Whatever her husbands actions or we imagine her beliefs to be have nothing to do with it.

With the current property prices in London, whether you are a buyer or a renter, social housing is even more needed.

We would not be able to buy today, nor afford rent for a family of 4, in London. But the capital cant only be a home for the (insanely) rich.

What on earth makes you think she is getting more sympathy? This is a thread about her, so it makes sense that she is the one being talked about on it. How can you determine from that the level of sympathy people may or may not have for other people and how it measures up against the level shown or given to her? Is there some sort of sympathOmeter I am not aware of?

And it's not a finite emotion, sympathy. Well, I gave 8oz of sympathy on Wednesday so I only have 2 left for the week, I'm not going to give a crap about anyone else until Saturday, just in case.

That's actually a very good point - we don't even know that she is claiming benefits. Yes, she is housed - but social housing isn't just for the unemployed. They may well be supported by other means. The Fail isn't going to tell you that.

But we do not extend the same generosity of spirit to other families who cannot afford the bedroom tax. Or who are are not granted leave to remain in this country. We regularly send back 16 year olds, elderly folk and split up families through our immigration policies but no one cares.

Who are you speaking for?

Even if she is on unemployment benefits (which we do not know - as others have said, being in a council house doesn't mean you're on benefits) and gets HB, that doesn't mean she doesn't have to top up her rent. I've been on JSA and Income Support, getting Housing Benefit and still had to top up my rent.

I'm speaking for myself

Abu Hamza's wife has been asked to move to a more appropriate property. She reportedly only lives there with two children.

In the end my feeling is that there is a terrible injustice in allowing these people to take advantage of a large property ( hamza also owns another house)while six of the male members of the family commit terrible crimes - bombmaking, fraud, armed robbery, violent disorder.

People loss their council homes for less.

Basically what I am saying is that this family do not deserve to be put up at our expense. They don't.

If she is breaking any laws, or claiming anything fraudulently, report her. You have the right to do that. The number to report benefit fraud on is 0800 678 3722. Which laws do you think she is breaking, just out of interest? Do you have any idea why or how such a high profile person could get away with any form of benefit fraud? Do you not think they would in fact be subject to far more scrutiny than, say, either you or I?

Feeling there is an injustice is neither here nor there if a law has not been broken. If it has, and you feel the appropriate action has not been taken, then you have the ability to report it and you should do so.

If no law has been broken then you can feel however you choose and I'm glad we live in a country where you are free to do so, but in terms of making her move, feelings mean diddly squat.

Mrs Hamza was given a tenancy with no end date as was commonplace at the time. The council can ask her to consider downsizing but under the social housing tenancy law as it stood/stands in her case, she is under no obligation to do so. The council is not entitled to apply a time limit retrospectively. She is in the same position as thousands of other people who are occupying a council house which may or may not be bigger than their current needs with no time limit to their tenancy, perfectly legally. It is not an ideal situation for those families on a waiting list for social housing, but that is not the fault of the individuals who are guilty of nothing more than occupying a house for which their eligibility had been proven to their council's satisfaction according to the terms which existed at the start of their lease.

If Mrs Hamza breaks the law or behaves in an antisocial manner no doubt she will be evicted, and I've no doubt she is under far more scrutiny than most.

Well indeed. She is not breaking any law.

That's all fine then.