To not want to write a list of chores for dh to do (to want him to just do more and show initiative)

[Frecklefeet]

I am 36 weeks pregnant and for the last few weeks I have asked dh to do more around the house. He is not too bad at doing housework but he tends to leave most to me, which I don't usually mind too much but now I'm feeling more tired and I want him to do more now and keep doing more when the baby comes.

He keeps asking me to write a list and organise the week and the days in regards to what needs doing, which I don't want to do, I just want him to do more and use initiative.

I had a look online for some articles (to email to him to prove I'm right) and they all seemed to support his request - that the woman should write a list of chores for the man etc and I think his is wrong. I am not fussy about how things are done, I just want to live in basic tidy and clean condition and don't want to be snowed under tonnes of washing etc so I want the chores kept on top of.

Fwiw both of us only work part time. He looks after ds some days, although he does work more than me so I do more childcare. Ds does go to nursery part time also. I will probably take 6 months maternity leave and then go back fewer hours than I do at the moment, dh will look after the baby until my hours increase and then the baby will go to nursery also.

So aibu? Should I have to write a list of chores? This feels like a huge chore in itself

Write him a list as follows:
Monday: make sure house clean and tidy, food stocks sufficient, all meals planned, washing done, dried and put away.
Tues: ditto
etc.

queenmab
braille pornography. they can't see the pictures in the other kind - that stuff is just for women

drspouse, that's a great idea. Honestly, I think that's all a competent adult should need.

I read this in the morning and was walking to work thinking about the 'teach a man to fish' comparison, and whether I could 'teach DH to fish' (and yes, also thinking about how patronising that sounds!).
Maybe...maybe the answer is to make a list not of the tasks that need done, but more of a flowchart showing how one decides what needs done. I'm going away now to invent this and write a bestselling book.

He has PTSD. He has PTSD.

Some really strange comments in here as the op has stated her dh has an anxiety related illness.

Still who cares aye? He's a bloke so it's all a bit of a laugh isn't it?

OK, so it is possible that the OP's husband has issues that interfere with his ability to make domestic decisions. But that doesn't excuse rather a lot of other men cited on this thread. Or the fact that it's apparently such a common issue that this recommendation about 'make him a list' comes up all the time, on MN and on other sites.

I hate housework. I wouldn't do any if I could get away with it and just 'not see' it, or get someone else to take over all the responsibility for telling me what to do when. Sadly, my partner refuses to become Housework Boss so we scowl glumly at each other while both convinced we're the Only Person Who Does Anything Around Here.

How does PTSD relate to needing someone else to organise you to tidy up?
It might relate - it has occurred to the OP and she has mentioned maybe it being addressed in his therapy - but she, who knows him better than any of us, says

"I don't really know why he wants a list and have asked and he says he just wants to be organised and he wants to see what needs doing, yet my argument is that he only needs to open his eyes and look around! hmm I think he is being lazy and passing the 'responsibility' onto me. He would do the chores if I wrote a list, but I don't want to be organising him."

• She has asked why - he did not mention his ptsd
• she believes he is being lazy

In another post she says he was very tidy living on his own. The OP is open to the possibility it has something to do with ptsd (in which case it is to be addressed therepeutically) but her gut is telling her otherwise.

He may be the special snowflake who can't tidy up BECAUSE REASONS. Or he may be the common or garden man who will stop tidying up when living with a woman because he thinks it is her responsibility; and when she becomes physically unable to do as much through pregnancy, insists on setting up an artificial need for a list, which she must make (which can't be researched elsewhere - no, she must write it) in order to make sure it remains her responsibility and he is only "helping".

Maybe he is the special snowflake. I don't know him.

When my dd got hot and clingy and whiny, and then I saw a couple of spots coming up, I thought "ah. this is probably chicken pox."

I did not think

Ringworm!
Scabies!
Scarlet Fever!
West Nile Virus Infection!
Colorado Tick Fever!

No. dd is a small child who goes to a preschool where someone has always just had chickenpox. She had not had it. She had chicken pox.

I would like to ask the assembled company, which is more common:

men who don't want to do housework and have a million ways of getting out of it;
Men who have a mental health condition which interferes with their ability to do housework?

I thought this post was a joke, light-hearted at least, when I read it this morning. Obviously not. My sympathies are now entirely with the husband.

Hi allhail

PTSD can affect all arid your life.

It's a really tricky and only recently recognised condition so it's treatment and understanding is also in its infancy.

My dd has problems with concentration/memory. Her focus is to avoid situations they remind her of the trauma so everything else can get lost or forgotten in her total focus on avoidance.

Most people who have PTSD don't want to discuss or admit it as it feels weak and shameful. People dismiss it or belittle it just like on this thread. Of course he won't acknowledge it to the op, men especially find it very difficult to admit.

My dd is 15 so we can catch her when she falls.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if a man had posted that his wife had PND but was getting councelling however she still couldn't manage properly and needed a list. He was sick of this, thought she was a lazy cow and refused to do a list.

Imagine the reaction.

And for the record. There are just as many messy untidy lazy womem as there are men.

This thread is a bit sickening in its sexism and it's total piss taking of a mental illness.

No, all the research and stats and surveys show there are not 'just as many untidy lazy women as there are men'. The Office for National Statistics has consistently demonstrated that women do more housework than men do: here's another more recent survey. Saying it's 'sexism' is simply wrong.

And you only have to look at endless MN threads about men who won't do housework to see just why people are focusing on the gender issue.

I agree goblin

I am sure op may not have meant to sound harsh and being heavily pregnant is hard and neither have lots of other posters who have mentioned useless men but please just think a bit.

Trust me 36 weeks pregnant is a bloody doodle compared to PTSD.

someonestolemynick I'm the same way. I have a higher tolerance for mess. So a couple dishes on the counter and it doesn't click that I should do dishes because we have plenty in the cupboard still. But a bunch in the sink, clean dishes running low and I'd do them.

Same with laundry, same with vacuuming. Sometimes it takes not having anything to wear to do laundry.

DH on the other hand has a lower tolerance for mess. So he has been put in charge of the kitchen because dishes bug him most. I get laundry because I have executive functioning issues and daily tasks are not going to happen it allows a longer time table to get done.

I just tell DH if something bugs him let me know and I'll get to it. So if he is getting uncomfortable with the amounts of laundry piling up, he reminds me to do it. But a list would not help me because if it was in the same spot it would just become background noise. A verbal reminder and I get it done and when I don't DH gets rightfully irritated at me.

But to the point about work, you get delegated tasks at work. You are given a list of things to do. When I ask my boss what needs to be done he never just motions towards the computer and says "Figure it out. Look at all the tasks going on and figure out which ones need work". If he did I'd most likely prioritize the wrong ones and do things in a different workflow than he'd like.

Think about if your DPs wanted help in an area you didn't normally participate in (or haven't in quite some time). It might be nice for them to give you a run down of what needs to be done instead of giving the very unhelpful statement of "You should already know".

To the car analogy, it would be if you were in a car with DP and he drove everyday to the same place. You drove there a few times, but generally it's him in charge of driving. You might pay attention to how he did it, you might not. You might have even taken different routes. If he suddenly said "Ok you drive", you'd feel better with a map so that you knew how he wanted you to drive there. You could do google maps, but then he had better not complain if you decide that taking the scenic route is nice if he refused to give you the map of his route.

mother he wants to help, he has asked for a list to help, he has a serious anxiety issue/illness.

He isn't lazy.

Much as I love mn and agree moaning about men in general I can't join in this one.

But housework isn't rocket science! Er...put stuff away, run a cloth over the surfaces, crack on with getting the tea.

Yes, but my point still stands. And it's not 'helping', it's doing his share.

Good grief, he's happy to do his bit, he's asked for the list so he gets it right.
Different people look around and see different things that need doing. It's NOT obvious! Not everyone is that organised with housework.

Just write the list!!

"But to the point about work, you get delegated tasks at work. You are given a list of things to do. When I ask my boss what needs to be done he never just motions towards the computer and says "Figure it out. Look at all the tasks going on and figure out which ones need work"."

Only if you are in a support role. Someone has to be the person who figures out what to do. Who made OP that person at home?

Yes, who made the OP housework boss?

And actually, half the time I do just have to figure stuff out.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if a man had posted that his wife had PND but was getting councelling however she still couldn't manage properly and needed a list. He was sick of this, thought she was a lazy cow and refused to do a list.

You forgot the part where he suggested she discuss the issue of chores with her therapist.

Then emailed her instead of simply talking to her about it, showing he was perfectly capable of writing out a little set of instructions for her, but refusing to do it.

And then acknowledging that PND could possibly interfere with her ability to help out, but still come to the conclusion she should just write her own list. Because he, who has not MH issues is able to do it, so why can't she? It's just that easy.

If the sexes were switched, this man would be roasted alive.

I have dyscalculia which makes directions hard. I can drive to the same place everyday and still get lost on certain days. If I asked my husband to just give me a map and I would be happy to drive, I would be incredibly frustrated if he gave me a book on how to draw maps. Could I draw a map for myself after reading the book? Maybe, depending on the day. But even if I could it would be a struggle each time. My DH would be an asshole to not just draw a map if he knew it was something I struggled with. He'd be the biggest wanker in the world if he refused to draw me a map and said I was only asking for him to draw maps because I was too lazy to just do it myself and then getting lost because I was being passive aggressive.

OP is being a right shit to her DH.

(But I think the rest of the thread has turned into a more generalized debate about men and society not expecting them to help more than pissing on her poor DH like she is).

FFS, why this obsession with the emailing? DP and I discuss loads of stuff on email. Frankly it's often easier to sort it out via email than at the end of a bloody long and knackering day. I don't want to 'sit down and talk about it' (discussions, on MN, are always seated, have you noticed?) I'd rather do it that way.

And I note you've used the term 'help' again.

But housework isn't rocket science! Er...put stuff away, run a cloth over the surfaces, crack on with getting the tea.

I'm going to try and be as patient as possible with you about this because I know that invisible disabilities are hard for people to grasp unless they've lived them.

But what you're doing is the equivalent of saying that it's easy enough to walk on a twisted ankle, why can't he walk on a broken foot?

FFS, why this obsession with the emailing?

Because it shows she's capable of communicating in writing. She can write to him about what she wants done, but she can't write a list. It's showing willful refusal to help him.

And I note you've used the term 'help' again.

And then acknowledging that PND could possibly interfere with her ability to contribute, but still come to the conclusion she should just write her own list. Because he, who has not MH issues is able to do it, so why can't she? It's just that easy.

Is that better sweetie?

I'd prefer 'do his share', sweetie.

It is entirely possible that if he has an anxiety-related disorder this affects his ability to make decisions and focus, that's obvious. And in that case, it would be useful to talk through therapeutically. You can't have it both ways.

And that doesn't cover every other man mentioned on this thread - a considerable number - who doesn't do his fair share of the domestic tasks.

I think it is, in fact, not unreasonable of a lot of people to focus on it as a broader gender-related issue given that it usually - and yes this one case may be the exception - is. And for the majority, housework is both loathsome and straightforward.