to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

prove her right prove me right at what? I have never said dc shouldnt go to nursery, or anything like it.

I always think anyone with anyone who is vulnerable in the care of others should be vigilant and always on the ball about the care they receive....

I am so fed up of a certain poster who drags the whole thing down and I shouldnt respond but the whole subject terrifies me...people can be so stupid and they dont actually know what goes on until people like some on this thread TELL US.

That said, I do broadly agree with Janey , and think there's an awful lot of scaremongering on this thread, much of which is linked to anti-WOHM sentiment.

This is the crux of the matter,
There are certain posters on these types of threads who are feeling goodness knows what, day in and day out.

A not 100% sure feeling that nothing happened?

That is a sad feeling to have.
Hadnt thought of that before.

I suppose, to help make you feel better, even the SAHMs put their children in paygroup or whatever it is called nowadays, for at least 2 mornings a week. So somethings may have happened there as well?

fwiw, I dont think it is anti WOHM sentiment, but I cant speak for others I suppose.

Again, fwiw, I dont think that the anti WOHM sentiment is anywhere near as bad in rl as the WOHM seem to think that it is?

All this though in no way means that people who actually work in childcare should shut up.
Absolutely not.

I can see now though that it makes some people feel very uneasy indeed. If not fearful.
But that is no reason that things should not be talked about and brought to the light.

omg am shocked, I just caught the news with the nanny being secretly filmed.

I dont understand with actual footage of a baby being thrown and hit, why the hell she wasnt found guilty wtf is going on?

That poor mum, that poor family?

Good god what a weird idea that deep down I would be scared something happened to my children while they were at their nursery. Is that Intended to scare me? Sorry, but I can only keep returning to the fact that I and my DH place our children's well being as central. They are happy well adjusted teenagers now (and have always Been very happy normal children). Like any caring parents, whether they use nursery or not, we do actually know our children

The nanny abusing a child was shocking, awful and she should have been convicted. No one in their right mind would deny that.
The fact is though, abuse is far more prevalent in the home, and we don't tar all SAHP with the same brush simply because some non working parents are rubbish. So why is there this scare mongering that if parents use childcare for their children, they are allowing their children to be harmed?

I'm afraid a lot of it does stem from a very anti- women stance; the feeling that a "proper" mother wouldn't dream of not being with her child 24/7 . It's quite depressing. I wouldn't expect any parents to put their child in childcare if they didn't want to, their child their choice. What a shame that sentiment isn't reciprocated

Janey.

The vast majority of posters are not anti childcare,they are anti crappy childcare

We're all anti crappy childcare aren't we ?

ah. You feel got at because you are a WOHM. Who is getting at you? On this thread, or in rl. Or yourself.

Why do you keep feeling the need to justify and defend yourself?

I have had a rethink.
And I am going to be blunt. Actually janey, even though you now have happy well adjusted whatever teenagers, you still will not know if something happened to them when they were babies.

janey, even is saintly types have had experience of this! (sorry but am trying to bring this back to reality, not us v you)

I remember settling ds into council nursery aged 3, he didnt want to stay and with a baby as well I desperately wanted him to settle in and enjoy it for the 2 and 1/2 hours I wasn't there.

His key worker told me to sit in the staff room until he'd settled, then she'd give me the nod so I could sneak home

So I sat there and now and then had a squint through the window in the room that looked onto the playroom. I was shocked at what I seen a few times, but not surprised as I'd seen similar before. The qualified, experienced nursery nurses changed as soon as mum and dads were out the door, they became short tempered and shouty. No one knew I was in the staff room, except ds's key worker. Now not all the staff became like this, just a couple of them but it was enough to let me know things in childcare hadnt changed. And before you ask, yes I still sent my son there as it was his local nursery to the school he'd got to at 5. And it was for 2 and 1/2 hrs a day. Now I know this wasnt ideal, but I also knew he was 3 and if he was really unhappy he could tell me. I suppose from a young age ds and the other kids learned from a young age which teachers to avoid and when to keep your head down, and am sure this continued into school, as he had some right grumpy teachers there.

What I'm trying to say is, this is just a job to people. In my job as a waitress I bitch and moan about the customers but never to their faces, I'm always nice and friendly to their faces but they'd never know they were driving me nuts at times. But maybe if they were little and I knew their mums and dads would never know I would bitch and moan to their faces and not really worry about it. (I wouldn't but am trying to prove a point here).

And when you moaning about your job sometimes your hearts just not in it and maybe thats the reason so many of us seen not neglect, but just a disinterest in the kids the staff were meant to be caring for.

I dont know if I'm expressing myself right here, I feel I'm tying myself up in knots trying to explain myself.

Not all nurseries are like this, most are absolutely fine, but parents should always make sure they spy on what is going on with their kids just to make sure everything is OK. As the Russian proverb says, "Trust, but verify". And if there really is neglect, report it to OFSTED.

I think it should be remembered that abusive situations in childcare are NOT the norm and that these things are rare...the majority of people in ANY job are decent and caring....that's the same whatever the profession. Most children are safe in their nursery and with their childminder....some might not be the most stimulating places or the most home-like but most are safe.

Trust but verify is a great expression.
That can be used throughout life.

Can grandparents pop in to nursuries?

Kins, I suppose it would be a good idea to think of pretexts for grandparents to drop things off at odd times, and perhaps observe discreetly the general conduct of the nursery whilst leaving rather slowly, etc.

I worked in a nursery for a bit and I would have expected the parents and grandparents to be gently spying on me, TBH. I hoped they would be interested enough.

Yes I fail to see how this thread is an attack on wp.Many,many wp don't use childcare and many that do don't use nurseries or childminders.I'm surrounded by wp and none use nurseries.Those that do use nurseries will want more scrutiny I'm sure.

Also the poster who highlighted pre- schools which sahp use has a valid point.

That said many children using these only do 2 or 3 sessions a week for 21/2 hour sessions taken by parents,grandparents and childminders.Pre- schools often have parents involved either in a work capacity or in a management role on the committee which I have done.Our committee was mostly run by parents,with qualified ex or current parents working there in a setting on school premises working closely with said school.

It's a world away from anonymous nursery chains run for profit and interesting that school based nurseries are now being pushed by Wilshaw not so much on a safeguarding level but development as not enough nurseries are getting children ready for school.

boffinmum, my ds's nursery was absolutely fine but what went on was totally typical

as an aside, on this thread there seems to be some childcare workers who have spent years training in, then working in, different nurseries who must have more experience of being in a nursery all day than a parent who drops off and picks up and attends open days and chats to the key worker for a few minutes a day

who has the most experience of what can go on?

how can you tell your one year old is getting cared for how you wish all day? its impossible, unless you believe everything the nursery tells you and records at 5 to 5 for you to take home.

there needs to be closer monitoring eg CCTV as compulsory and better wages and conditions for the staff and making nurseries less profit driven ...I dont know the answer but its a start

Having parents on the committee means you get more say on everything from getting highly qualified staff and safeguarding to what they have at snack time.

We had several ex teachers working at ours, a few who were parents.

Probably part of the reason why it gets consistent Outstanding gradings by Ofsted.

I've worked as a nanny and in nurseries too and think many people do a great job with the children.
In my experience keeping the children happy (as a minimum) makes it all much more pleasant and easy for everyone.
A room-full of crying toddlers isn't great for anyone, and it's definitely a minority that would go down that route IMHO
HTH any Mums with DC in nurseries to feel slightly reassured

I don't think this should be brushed under the carpet for fear of it upsetting a mother, sorry. That is like saying abuse in care homes shouldn't be highlighted for fear of upsetting the relatives, who also have guilt about their relative being there! We need to be vigilant, and there is nothing wrong with reminding people of that as it is easy to become complacent.

Like any walk of life, there will be some excellent child care professionals, and some poor ones. In my opinion qualifications are pretty irrelevant, as is proven in care homes were some registered nurses have been found to be abusing patients, not just unqualified staff.

Mind you some parents have unrealistic expectations of childminders in my opinion too, going by many threads I have saw on here. I completely trust my cm or I wouldn't use her. We kind of see her as another granny - if she gives them sweets or lets them watch a lot of tv now and again, it doesn't worry me - I know it isn't a regular thing. I would obviously step in though if I felt she wasn't caring for them adequately.

To the poster who asked how do I know that my teenage children didn't have something 'bad' happen to them when they were at nursery, despite the fact they are well adjusted and happy.... Well, that question could be asked of any parent couldn't it? We could all suggesr that something sinister has happened, and if not at a nursery then by the other parent or extended family member (which is statistically more likely anyway)

I like 'trust and verify' and it sums up the way most of us operate in real life ... We don't start from a position of distrust because actually the vast majority of people aren't neglectful or abusive. But of course we verify- its an ongoing process, and actually having happy well adjusted children is part of that verification. If my children hadnt been able to settle in nursery or had been unhappy then DH and I would have had to rethink. Maybe try out a child Minder long term, or a Nanny. Maybe one of us would have had to stop work, of both go part time, to avoid using it. That's no different to some others on here who have said that they don't use nursery because their children aren't happy.