to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

Lots of children are neglected by their biological parents, it's not just CMs and nurseries.

My cousin works in a nursery in a very affluent area. Lots of money around and the children are always dressed in designer clothes, some of the mothers see their children as accessories. They are not in the least interested in hearing what their child has done throughout the day. The children are in full time nursery asap and a lot of the mothers are SAHMs and are busy with gym, manicures, lunches, coffee meet ups and shopping.

I would not mention this to my friends, even those who I think might agree, but I would never put my small children in a nursery. I hate them. They are horrid. Pre school fine. Nurseries never.

Childminders are regularly inspected and are out and about in the community a hell of a lot more than nurseries are so are open to much more public scrutiny.
I can't think of a single example of serious abuse by a registered childminder in recent years but can think of a few in nurseries.
So, not always the safer option ,....

Just because "some" parents neglect their children it doesn't mean that neglect in nurseries is ok ffs.

Bad care is bad care, whatever form it takes, I don't think one ought to generalise about nurseries or cms or parents, but childcare, or indeed care is one of the hardest jobs anyone can do, to do well.

So neglect in nurseries is ok because you want to presume that thereis just as much at home
I'm not familiar with care homes so can't comment on the level of care there and don't know to what extent abuse or neglect occurs.
However, I can honestly say that I have never been in a good nursery.
Some may be outstanding by Ofsted measures but after they have gone, it soon goes back to normal.
I think staff in all institutions should be recorded whilst at work and then the recordings chosen at random by ofstead and parents to view.

I have a fab nursery where my children love their key workers so I don't think it's a problem that's endemic

Your comment on losing your job when asked why you didn't report what you saw... Well, in my book, as a trusted member of their team, if you saw things that you didn't think right and you chose to ignore it, that makes you as bad as those you are judging... Especially where children are concerned

I've worked in nurseries and witnessed what the OP says and worse.

I would never, ever use a nursery not because of what I witnessed because I know there are good nurseries as well as bad ones. What would put me off is how well hidden it can be. The nursery I worked in was full, with a waiting list, Ofsted rated good, kids were mostly happy to come in the morning etc. Those parents had no idea what went on. I think people kid themselves with 'DS is happy enough to go to nursery...', kids who are abused by their parents still want to be with them, it's counter intuitive, but that's the way it is!

And, no, I didn't report it. I should have done, but I was young, inexperienced and scared of the fall out. It still troubles me.

I get tired of the nursery-bashing on here. I'm sure there are some bad ones out there, but the nursery I use is fantastic and I would hate the staff to read a thread like this.

op, I trained as an NNEB, worked here and abroad as a sole charge nanny, worked in day nurseries and nursery schools for years......and I totally and utterly agree with you 100%

I think that childminders are worse than nurseries because they work on their own and there is no real way of knowing what they're doing with your dc. Regulation is all very well but in general it's just a box ticking exercise where Ofsted can call but generally don't - and as CM's usually do work in a cluster one will generally tip off the others if Ofsted are on their way.

But I've encountered childminders who:

Left mindees in the car while dropping others at preschool (car was out of sight and mindee was a baby). arranged for another parent to pick up a mindee from nursery because she had a dentist appointment and would meet her halfway.

Left a baby asleep in her car while she went to a friend's for coffee and the car was out of sight.

Waited at school for her own children to doo activities, mindees were expected to sit quietly for the duration while she chatted to her friends/texted/bitched about the children in question.

All different childminders. And all played with the kids some of the time so generally the kids were happy enough not to make a fuss, or young enough not to realise they'd been left....

And the thing is that most CM's are only CM;s because they want something to do while their own kids are at home. I've heard suggested countless times on here "why not become a childminder."

I would never, ever use a childminder (although mine is way past that age now).

Neglect of any vulnerable person is not good. At least children in nurseries get to go home in the evenings/weekends.

and IMO it's not about serious abuse but just general crap-ness iyswim, probably not worth reporting by someone seeing it on the street because it's not actual abuse but perhaps mentioning to a friend if it was their dc in the care of such a cm.

Of course there are crap nurseries of course there are crap care homes just as there will be bent coppers and lazy nurses.
The problem is when you see certain behaviours you take it as representative of the whole of these professions

The OP though is specifically asking if there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly. I think, although clearly it does happen sometimes, that neglect is less likely in childcare situations.

Childcare seems more heavily regulated, parents can drop in any time and although an unpalatable thought, children are cute and are developing into people whereas the elderly are more likely to be thought of as a burden or a chore and not much else. You get a lot of people saying i want to work with children....not so many saying i want to work with the elderly.

The elderly will also be in their care home 24/7 in most cases with very few visits and only then at designated times.

I am really happy with the nursery my son goes to but the reason I sent him there is because my DM has worked there for 10 years and knows the place inside out so I felt that he would be looked after there and he loves it.

I would never use a child minder in my area because the only ones I have seen at soft play and playgrounds don't seem to give a shit about the kids at all. I know there are good ones out there but it put me right off ever using one.

And the purpose of this thread is what, exactly??

Now that you've raised this as a reason why parents shouldn't use childcare (I presume this is what you're saying?) - what are you going to do about it OP?

nursery staff and carework is very badly paid, its inevitable the care given reflects this

its completely unacceptable

wannabe the fact your dc are way past childcare age implies you saw this stuff a long long time ago.
Childminding is now seen as a viable profession and regulations and inspections are far tougher.
I also don't understand how you knew a CM left the mindee in the car out of sight whilst she went for a coffee with a friend. Were you the friend? were you the CM? if not, how on earth would you know this?
as CM's usually do work in a cluster one will generally tip off the others if Ofsted are on their way I'm afraid this isn't how inspections work. the inspectors don't target an area at a time. CM's are chosen to be inspected by a central agency. There is no relevance to a CM whether a local CM has just been inspected or not.

apparently there are good cm out there but I'm yet to encounter one.

I think that serious abuse and neglect is not as common because as said upthread children are generally there for the day and then go home and it's not quite the same as a care home setting. I think however that benign neglect such as children not being played with, left to cry longer than most would be comfortable with, perhaps being talked about in their presence etc is probably commonplace.

I have been a nursery nurse for 20 years and am yet to witness any of this in the nursery i work in. We are ofsted rated good! The resource are not top notch but the care side is second to none!

Children/ babies do cry and when you are on a 1-3 ratio it can be challenging but no Child is left to cry alone on the floor. And no Child is dumped down on the floor as soon as the parent has gone unless to play.

I hate threads like this where working mother are made to feel guilty for working. It's hard leaving your child with stranger but hopefully the settling in period you have watched the staff with the other children or rather watched the children interact come for cuddles etc which can't be put on. And developed a relationship with your child's key person.

I am shocked that anyone witnessed such abuse and did nothing about it other than tell their tale on mumsnet to frighten working parents.

Oh and over the years I have seen some terrible parenting but that's another thread!

thing is, parents need to work and childcare is now a business, I think the gov should be more involved and there should be more council run nurseries for all ages, and get rid of the private ones, they are purely profit driven

How is an entire thread decrying nurseries and childminders as awful NOT meant to upset working parents?

FWIW I am very happy with the nursery my son attends.

I was the friend at it was at my house.

The last mention of tip-offs of inspections I heard talk about about three years ago - things haven't changed that radically.

I am shocked that anyone witnessed such abuse and did nothing about it other than tell their tale on mumsnet to frighten working parents

^ This.

OP - you are as bad as the staff who neglected the children in their care. You should be ashamed of yourself.