to think there could be as many neglected children in childcare as there are elderly people in care homes?

[choplouey]

I have three preschool children and a 7 and 9 yr old. I've worked in nurseries on and off since leaving university and obviously have been to a wealth of parks, soft play areas, toddler groups, childrens centres and so on in my nine years as a parent.

Before I get slated - this is not an attack on working mums or childcarers. I recognise that there are many people who want/have to work and many fantastic childcarers. However...

While working in nurseries (I've worked in 12) I've seen children plonked down as soon as their parent leaves and left crying, fussed over for 5 mins so they're happy before they return, an untrue record kept of food and nappies for non-verbal children, children told to shut up, upset children ignored in corners for great lengths of time and so on.

Last week I went to soft play and there was a childminder there. She sat on her phone for the entire time, despite two of her mindees hitting/being hit/crying. Today I went to toddler group and a childminder was working with her sister. One child was around 18 months and wailed the entire time. One kept asking 'what's wrong with you?' every ten mins, the other just plonked her down with toys and told her to stop being stupid.

Another mindee was dropped off by her mum and the childminder was all over her tickling and chasing her while mum was there. Literally the minute she left the childminder sat down, the little girl started crying and the childminder ignored her. Her sister rolled her eyes and said to her 'it's no wonder your mum's don't want you if you're both such miserable little cows!' and they laughed

The children this morning looked so hopeless and helpless and I left feeling furious that the childminder will tell their parents what a lovely day they've had and so sick at the thought of how crap she treats them at home if it's that poorly in public.

Aibu to feel this way and sad for how many parents are given misinformation?

I know/see loads of childminders.None of them seem very nice to the kids,they aways have loads with them and just seem to bark at them constantly.

speed it would be interesting to know more about amercian child care esp nurseries as I belive its far more common there to put babies into nursery etc..more of the culture they must have had issues they have over come or are dealing with...

I don't know much about American child care, but I believe there are nurseries in the UK with CCTV that parents can log in to and watch too. I'd find that very reassuring.

I've been into two separate nurseries/pre-schools on my student placements.
The nursery I was in was privately owned, offered French and PE lessons as standard, had beautiful displays and a very impressive outdoor area but I wouldn't have left my dog there. It looked good, ticked all of ofsted's boxes and the staff pasted on the smiles when parents were around. But it was horrible. Truly awful. I have never encountered people less suited to their job. Suffice to say that they clearly did not have any regard or concern for those children. They might just have well have been dogs. And Yes I did report to my Uni and to ofsted.
The second one, a preschool in a community hall. No hi tech equipment or fancy play things was absolutely wonderful. It restored my faith that some child care is a really positive experience for a child and the staff truly love the children and treat them as respectfully as if they were there own.
My point is that things are not always as they seem. Too much gloss would ring alarm bells with me now.

I work in a nursery and this morning we have all been inthe park doing forest school activities, pushing them on swings, reading, on the roundaboout over and over with no breaks whilst all the mums with their children sit on their phones and barely look up so we often end up pushing their children round as they dont. I see this a lot at the park and its pure laziness.

Years ago, we were looking for childcare.. I was a teacher and my husband worked at the Post Office. Something we had had sorted fell through and I rang social services, to ask if they knew of anywhere or could recommend anything. The woman at the end of the phone said "Don't tell anyone I told you this, strictly off the record but... avoid x nursery. We're about to investigate it..." Apparently this place had kids day and night and there had been some concerns raised about what was going on there at night...

I duly avoided the place and made other arrangements. Fast forward several months and the very ambitious, work obsessed Deputy Head of our school offered me a lift home one day. She normally was in school til late, working extra hours, but that day could give me a lift. On the way she said she was stopping at the nursery to pick up her kids. I noticed a whole group of forlorn, tearful looking kids literally stood in a window, waiting for their parents to turn up - no activities, nothing. And recognised then the name of the place and realised it was the one that had been about to be investigated, months earlier, that I was tipped the wink about.

I'm not sure if I'd have dared raise the subject with my colleague but when I saw her kids, faces up against the window pane, desperate to go home, I thought I better say summat as it looked like an Eastern European orphanage.

I picked my time and tried to handle it as subtly as I could and my colleague looked really shame-faced but, it turned out, never moved her kids elsewhere. That place opened unusually early and late and she worked long hours as she was after a promotion... Essentially, I felt she put the kids she taught ahead of her own children. I have never forgotten those sad little kids. In years that followed, never put my own kids in a nursery where they were all abandoned by any adults at home time and left to press their faces hopefully against a window... My kids were usually still painting, or playing with Duplo or having a story when I turned up to collect them.

Colleague didn't want to know as her ambition was more powerful than her feelings for her own kids. Those kids will be in their early 20s now. I often wonder if they were damaged in some way, being in that grim place.

oh FGS are you writing for Eastenders....

A nursery with windows sounds like a great idea.

I meant popping in as a parent. Also vital if you ask me.

LOL. Sadly, no. This was the early 1990s.

I left that school at the ed of that year and never did find out whether she got a Headship. Personally, I'd rather leave work at 3:30 and forget the brownie points with the boss. That was one of several things that ultimately confirmed for me that teaching would never be a longterm thing for me, as the people who succeeded had that kind of brutal ambition, that even left their own kids sobbing in window bays, every night of the week.

It was only months after the phone call though and I know I didn't misremember the name of the place. (Have long since forgotten it). And it was around the time people were adopting kids from Romanian orphanages, and that was exactly what it reminded me of - like summat off the news.

Kins - yes, you were welcome at any time. They were also very flexible about dropping off and picking up. I paid for full days but dropped off and picked up when it was convenient to me without prior notice.

What I meant about the windows was that it is unlikely there would have been a habit of only interacting with the children when a parent was on the premises since their interaction could be seen at any time without them being aware.

My children, along with their friends, used to look out of the windows towards the end of the day. It was a game to them. Let's all look out of the window and see whose Mummy is coming next and all jump up and down like mad things yelling and shouting when we see one. Not sad, just fun.

sounds pretty sad to me permanentlyexhausted, not much fun waiting for your mum and someone else's arrives instead...not fun at all.

You can think that if you like ssd, but since you were not there and I was, I think I know what I'm talking about rather better than you do.

I have had 5 kids and they were in various nurseries, over the years - and never saw this before or since. No matter what time I picked my kids up they would be occupied and being given full attention.

Also, I saw these kids' faces. They looked sad and desperate. It was very, very wrong.

What concerned me more was the fact I told my colleague what the SS had told me, off the record, and she wasn't even concerned enough to check it out. If that had been me, I'd have not rested til I knew whether it was indeed a safe place to leave my kids. On top of that, if I saw the sad kiddies with faces pressed against the window - she must have seen it too (and daily) and as someone who earned a living working with young kids... she didn't think that was bad? I assumed her ambition - and lack of time to find somewhere else - made her blank out what I'd told her. Not many nurseries in that city at that time had kids so late.

true I wasnt there permanently, but I've been in enough nurseries to know what its like at 5pm and the description from absoluteidiot sounds more true to what I've seen over the years working in childcare

speedwell my DC attended nursery when we lived (briefly) in the US. There was no CCTV (this was 12 years ago) but the parents were very open about keeping tabs on the staff and facilities.

Parents dropped off and collected throughout the day and would tell other parents when they had done a spot check. From what I oculd see, this was common place.

Their expectations from the setting were very high (it cost a fortune), but they also expected to play their part IYSWIM.

CCTV is a brilliant idea, surely with the profits a nursery makes they could install one in each room, am sure this would be great for the parents and staff.

Elderly people abused in care homes - outrage and outcry.

Flagged up that it could be happening to children too - defensiveness, attacking the OP and whining a about how cruel it is to talk about it because it makes working parents feel bad .

I'm amazed by the responses on this thread.

I can't comment on other nurseries as I only ever used one.I haven't suggested that what absoluteidiot said isn't true in that case but I do know it wasn't the case in the one I used.

If children wished to be occupied with specific activities towards the end of the day, there were activities going on and staff engaging with them. If they wished to play independently, including looking out of the window to see who might be coming, then they could. It wasn't at all regimented; children could choose what to do and when.

Although part of a chain, my children's nursery was in our village, staffed by ladies who lived in the village (and with a significantly higher average age than it sounds many nurseries have), and used by people who lived in the village. The other parents were my friends, with whom we would regularly have playdates and enjoy an endless round of birthday parties. Children were genuinely excited to see whose mummy/daddy/granny would arrive next since these were adults they knew well and with whom they spent fun times out of nursery. My DDs favourite end of the day activity would be to ask for a specific CD to be put on endless repeat so she could dance round doing the actions to it. But she could see who was coming down the path and would race over to the relevant friend and yell loudly tell them that their mum or whoever was coming.

that nursery sounds absolutely lovely, just the sort of place I'd want for my kids.

If someone posts on here saying that they looked at the nurseries in their local area and decided against them because they didn't think they were up to scratch, or they post saying their own children aren't suited to nursery- I dont think anyone takes issue with that. I certainly believe them.

However, that's very different from the posts which say 'I've worked in a number of crap nurseries with bad practice; therefore all nurseries are bad'
Or even worse, "I dropped into a nursery to check it out for my child, and noticed a colleagues child who I don't think was happy and of course I know better than the child's parents how he feels".
Or: I went to my local playgroup and sussed out who was a childminder and I timed how long they interacted with their mindees"

The first scenario is about people telling their own experience. The other scenarios tell us a lot about the poster and display a rather unhealthy over involvement in other people's lives.

Tbh you could probably walk into anyone's home and see a snapshot which could lead you to make a judgement if you're that way inclined. When I worked part time, there were no doubt some occasions you might have found my toddlers parked in front of the telly while I got on with something else. If you were daft enough to make a sweeping judgement based on that, then is suggest you had too much time on your hands and should stop worrying.

Flagged up that it could be happening to children too - defensiveness, attacking the OP and whining a about how cruel it is to talk about it because it makes working parents feel bad

This has been puzzling me too. Having had a brother in care, and a Father in long term respite after an operation, and having worked in a home myself, I used all my knowledge to try and watch out for my own relatives in care.

I thought last night, who would get upset with these threads.
Who would get defensive?

woRking mothers ? OR

nURSERY OWNERS ???

[WINK]

Why would working mothers be upset? Do you not think working fathers have a view on things?

And to answer your question, it should be the sub standard nursery workers and childminders who are upset by it (just as it should be neglectful or abusive parents who sit up and take notice)

Working parents would normally do what you have done with your relatives- ie spend a great deal of time researching provision, drop in unannounced Etc and of course we know our own children best so we know when they are settled, secure etc

I appreciate its different with other relatives in long term care though because you are not going to be tuned in to how they feel and you're not living with them... It's very different to a parent/ child relationship.

I appreciate its different with other relatives in long term care though because you are not going to be tuned in to how they feel and you're not living with them... It's very different to a parent/ child relationship

Oh dear!

I think you appreciate very little actually.

I have never heard so much horse manure.

In all honesty your posts sound like a teenager taking over mums lap top for fun during exam time?

Why- because I don't agree with you? And because I point out the fact that your average person who may be living 100s of miles from an elderly parents care home is hardly likely to be tuned into how their parent is feeling, unlike a parent who lives with their children? Or was it the fact that I dared mention working fathers which rattled you?!

Erm my mother was tuned into her beloved mother being cared for 100s of miles away until the day she died.

Dp's mother has cancer and although not there all the time he is very tuned in to her- she is his mother.Phones,FaceTime,Skype,other relations,nurses,carers etc can convey a lot.

We knew her every mood,upset,every detail,all her worries.They may be old,in pain,suffering and scared but they're still adults very much able to convey their feelings of which a child(even a grown up one)can always tune into.