to go to church to get DS into a better school

[ilovejesus]

We live in the centre of a big city, near some badly rated schools. The faith schools are, of course, much better.

I am an atheist and so is DH. We both think the current system is appalling, but I am prepared to start going to church in order to get DS into a better school when the time comes (he's 2). DH is strongly against this, saying it's unethical. I think the whole bloody system is unethical, but until the system is changed, I don't want to ruin DD's future over it. He's also morally against sending her private (not that we could afford it), and I am too.

So as not to drip feed, my problem with the schools is not the teaching which I'm sure is fine, it's the low expectations set for these children. Basically the children at the closest school are expected to become checkout workers and security guards. There's nothing wrong with that but I want more for DD. We both went to good unis and have professional jobs.

AIBU to go to church with my fingers crossed, and if not, how do I convince DH?

Faith schools are only better than other schools if they are oversubscribed and therefore de facto selective.

Faith alone does not make a school better. As the statistics bear out.

I've been in OP's situation. I did it. I started going to Church about 3 years before DS1 went to school with the sole objective of securing him a place at the nearest school to me which happened to be CofE & Outstanding.

This school at the time required evidence of baptism, regular attendance (at least fortnightly), evidence of address and siblings were given priority (the address & sibling criteria were the bottom two on the list). There was also a 10 minute interview with the vicar which I think was essentially him putting a name to a face.

DS1 had already been baptised as despite not being religious ourselves, both DH and I were broadly raised in the Christian faith and it meant a lot to our families - yes, not the "right" reason for a baptism, but certainly not with any ulterior motives in mind at the time.

Going to church was regularly was a conscious decsion based on getting our child into what we thought was the best school for him at the time - small, local etc. It wasn't bad. It is a large and welcoming congregation. I think that makes a difference as I certainly couldn't have looked someone in the face and lied to them about my "faith" but with such a large congregation, it was rare that I had more in depth conversation than "hi, how are you, lovely weather". I suppose it also helped that it is quite a gregarious church with lots of singing etc. Going really didn't feel like a chore. I must admit, for the most part, I'm interested in what they say - the expeditions to the developing world, fundraising for local, even the explanations of sections of the bible. I just don't believe in God.

Upshot? My DS got into the school. It doesn't seem to me that he is exposed to more religion than I was in my non-affiliated primary school although maybe "normal" primary schools were more religious then? I don't know. Believe it or not, we don't actually talk about my beliefs much. We talk about his. His belief in God has helped him through two bereavements. Whether he will believe in God as he grows older and remain a Christian, I don't know. Much like I don't and won't impress my political beliefs on him - it is really up to him.

Now - we're looking at secondaries. We have the choice of 2 comps which we are not close to and are usually oversubscribed anyway and 2 CofE schools and 2 selective schools. We will probably go for one of the selective schools with the CofE as back up. I don't feel bad about this for a number of reasons but mainly because I think it's wrong to have faith schools so I don't feel bad about playing the system but also, because my son IS now a practising Christian. It is real to him. Why should MY beliefs impact on him? He would not have been a Christian had he not gone to a Cof E primary school though.

Sorry if this is too long and has typos.

I've been in OP's situation. I did it. I started going to Church about 3 years before DS1 went to school with the sole objective of securing him a place at the nearest school to me which happened to be CofE & Outstanding.

This school at the time required evidence of baptism, regular attendance (at least fortnightly), evidence of address and siblings were given priority (the address & sibling criteria were the bottom two on the list). There was also a 10 minute interview with the vicar which I think was essentially him putting a name to a face.

DS1 had already been baptised as despite not being religious ourselves, both DH and I were broadly raised in the Christian faith and it meant a lot to our families - yes, not the "right" reason for a baptism, but certainly not with any ulterior motives in mind at the time.

Going to church was regularly was a conscious decsion based on getting our child into what we thought was the best school for him at the time - small, local etc. It wasn't bad. It is a large and welcoming congregation. I think that makes a difference as I certainly couldn't have looked someone in the face and lied to them about my "faith" but with such a large congregation, it was rare that I had more in depth conversation than "hi, how are you, lovely weather". I suppose it also helped that it is quite a gregarious church with lots of singing etc. Going really didn't feel like a chore. I must admit, for the most part, I'm interested in what they say - the expeditions to the developing world, fundraising for local, even the explanations of sections of the bible. I just don't believe in God.

Upshot? My DS got into the school. It doesn't seem to me that he is exposed to more religion than I was in my non-affiliated primary school although maybe "normal" primary schools were more religious then? I don't know. Believe it or not, we don't actually talk about my beliefs much. We talk about his. His belief in God has helped him through two bereavements. Whether he will believe in God as he grows older and remain a Christian, I don't know. Much like I don't and won't impress my political beliefs on him - it is really up to him.

Now - we're looking at secondaries. We have the choice of 2 comps which we are not close to and are usually oversubscribed anyway and 2 CofE schools and 2 selective schools. We will probably go for one of the selective schools with the CofE as back up. I don't feel bad about this for a number of reasons but mainly because I think it's wrong to have faith schools so I don't feel bad about playing the system but also, because my son IS now a practising Christian. It is real to him. Why should MY beliefs impact on him? He would not have been a Christian had he not gone to a Cof E primary school though.

Sorry if this is too long and has typos.

I'm a non practising roman catholic, really would love my dcs to go to the local rc school and it would be relatively easy for me to get back into going to mass etc to make this happen. However, i personally believe that those who genuinely go to mass for the right reasons (as in not to secure place at school) deserve those places more than my dc. I did deliberate over it for a long time and dh (agnostic) was fully supportive of either decision but i just think it is wrong. For alot of rc people it really about the community and solidarity that goes along with being with other dc with same beliefs, (presume this is same fir all faiths) and so i think they should be left to be part of something which theyve genuinely chosen as their way of life. For me it was just a step too far to go through the motions just to get dc into school even though i believe in God and still consider myself catholic, albeit non practicing.

ClockWatchingLady
In a scenario where there are limited places at a good school, and (assuming for the sake of argument) the alternatives will be detrimental to your child, then by definition if you manage to get a place for your child at the good school, another child will instead go to the shit one.

I get that, I really do. But each of us as parents have responsibility to our own child way before any responsibility to anyone else's. By going to church to secure a place, you aren't doing anything that every other parent couldn't do if they chose to.

It is no individual parents fault that all schools aren't brilliant and full of motivated, engaged and supportive parents. There is nothing wrong with doing the best you possibly can for your own children, other children have their own parents to do their best for them.

I think Catholic schools are more hard core, religiously speaking. C of E attenders don't have the same sense of being part of a religious family, IME.

I think this is widely done. Bet that churches linked with school admissions get much better attendance and that families don't keep up attendance for too long once DC are all in!

YA absolutely NBU. The criteria is church attendance, not religious belief. Do what you have to do.

A system which results in pupils not getting a place at their local school because of their parents' beliefs is unfair and wrong.

Incidentally my DDs attend a C of E school (entrance criteria was distance only) and DH and I are atheist. It wasn't our first choice but is a lovely school, we have discussions with the girls about how some people believe a and some people believe b and they can up their own minds.